elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 1, 2020 23:13:08 GMT
that's a really unrealistic sample. 90% of the time we have 0-4 admins on and you took 3 screenshots that were in peak time to make it look worse than it actually is. I remember even back in 2014-2015 peak times would have really bad admin:op ratios. Yes, in practice, we will need quite a few admins to deal with the player surge we will experience from a YouTuber joining. No one is expected to administrate all day and so we can't control when admins are on. There will naturally be peak times and I can guarantee you that like 90% of the time, there are more ops than admins online. Haha, go ahead and compare the slots of the server at prime time right now compared to how it always was back in those years. I just went to the website now at 7 PM EST on July 1st and it's 11 players (numerous admins), that's a fat failure in my book and the wash of players that an individual YouTube video will bring in will not fix that long-term. There are real solutions that can be considered. People intentionally take the easy way out instead of considering them. 7/13 players currently are OPs I don't know where you're getting your data from.. |
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miwo
Veteran Member
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Post by miwo on Jul 1, 2020 23:14:01 GMT
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:14:27 GMT
Haha, go ahead and compare the slots of the server at prime time right now compared to how it always was back in those years. I just went to the website now at 7 PM EST on July 1st and it's 11 players (numerous admins), that's a fat failure in my book and the wash of players that an individual YouTube video will bring in will not fix that long-term. There are real solutions that can be considered. People intentionally take the easy way out instead of considering them. 7/13 players currently are OPs I don't know where you're getting your data from.. Yup, definitely none of those were ever admins, not at all. Not that 13 players is a terrible standard to have at the time that I described anyways at all.... |
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
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Post by square on Jul 1, 2020 23:15:51 GMT
7/13 players currently are OPs I don't know where you're getting your data from.. Yup, definitely none of those were ever admins, not at all. Not that 13 players is a terrible standard to have at the time that I described anyways at all.... maybe because its midnight for the majority of europe? we get large peaks up to 30 (iirc 50 very recently) during the day. |
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 1, 2020 23:17:25 GMT
7/13 players currently are OPs I don't know where you're getting your data from.. Yup, definitely none of those were ever admins, not at all. Not that 13 players is a terrible standard to have at the time that I described anyways at all.... 1 player doesn't make the difference. And it isn't a terrible standard because the time right now is 12am GMT and 7am in Asia, which means it's the shittiest time for everywhere else but the US. The world doesn't revolve around America budddy |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:18:59 GMT
Yup, definitely none of those were ever admins, not at all. Not that 13 players is a terrible standard to have at the time that I described anyways at all.... maybe because its midnight for the majority of europe? we get large peaks up to 30 (iirc 50 very recently) during the day. "If I recall correctly," "maybe," "very recently," sure. Put your money where your mouth is, because I'm not impressed by our standard of excellence being a dozen people online and the vast majority of them either being admins or former admins. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:19:44 GMT
Yup, definitely none of those were ever admins, not at all. Not that 13 players is a terrible standard to have at the time that I described anyways at all.... 1 player doesn't make the difference. And it isn't a terrible standard because the time right now is 12am GMT and 7am in Asia, which means it's the shittiest time for everywhere else but the US. The world doesn't revolve around America budddy Show the data then. |
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 1, 2020 23:20:36 GMT
Its impossible to only have the "hard working" administrators left. Its just not feasible with the resources we have to find out who is the "best" admins are. Anyone can be an effective admin. The issue is that you are only encouraged to be on this server to administrate it, and therefore we do not have a player base, we have an admin base (including former admins in this list) and some guests that the admins watch over. It's gotten to this point over many years and the current admin team does not see a reason to change it because they have their status, and therefore this server will continue to decline as people will sooner vote to remove player freedom than they will create an actually functional admin system and freedom server experience which rakes and retains a real player base. I agree with everything you have said here, I think our root problem is that people are too afraid to make any big changes because they're contempt with the server aslong as they have their rank. At our most basic level, we are essentially a creative building server. This is what most people do in-game. They build bases, redstone machines, statues, ect. Now take a step back, what incentives does our server offer that other creative building servers don't? Our server constantly crashes, worldedit is extremely slow, little to no grief protection, redstone is disabled half the time, and most "OP" permissions are blocked. The majority of people stay here for the community once they get bored of building, and stay long enough within the community and you're encouraged to achieve admin. This is our issue. A normal player should be completely contempt in just being a normal player, but on our server they are not. The vast majority of the popular servers do not have players joining to achieve admin, they join to play bedwars, survival games, skyblock, survival mp, ect. There's just a clear lack of available things to do as an operator. This is our root issue, not having too many admins. |
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elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 1, 2020 23:23:12 GMT
1 player doesn't make the difference. And it isn't a terrible standard because the time right now is 12am GMT and 7am in Asia, which means it's the shittiest time for everywhere else but the US. The world doesn't revolve around America budddy Show the data then. What data? |
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
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Post by square on Jul 1, 2020 23:23:50 GMT
maybe because its midnight for the majority of europe? we get large peaks up to 30 (iirc 50 very recently) during the day. "If I recall correctly," "maybe," "very recently," sure. Put your money where your mouth is, because I'm not impressed by our standard of excellence being a dozen people online and the vast majority of them either being admins or former admins. Im sure other admins can back me up with those peaks, it isnt unusual for a decline in playerbase when its late at night. Also, on the topic of the OP - how would you manage to cut down on the admins "based off if they are good"? It seems dumb to me that you ask admins to be active and to do their jobs while nit picking which admins are definitively *better* despite there no real way of finding out. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:24:40 GMT
Anyone can be an effective admin. The issue is that you are only encouraged to be on this server to administrate it, and therefore we do not have a player base, we have an admin base (including former admins in this list) and some guests that the admins watch over. It's gotten to this point over many years and the current admin team does not see a reason to change it because they have their status, and therefore this server will continue to decline as people will sooner vote to remove player freedom than they will create an actually functional admin system and freedom server experience which rakes and retains a real player base. I agree with everything you have said here, I think our root problem is that people are too afraid to make any big changes because they're contempt with the server aslong as they have their rank. At our most basic level, we are essentially a creative building server. This is what most people do in-game. They build bases, redstone machines, statues, ect. Now take a step back, what incentives does our server offer that other creative building servers don't? Our server constantly crashes, worldedit is extremely slow, little to no grief protection, redstone is disabled half the time, and most "OP" permissions are blocked. The majority of people stay here for the community once they get bored of building, and stay long enough within the community and you're encouraged to achieve admin. This is our issue. A normal player should be completely contempt in just being a normal player, but on our server they are not. The vast majority of the popular servers do not have players joining to achieve admin, they join to play bedwars, survival games, skyblock, survival mp, ect. There's just a clear lack of available things to do as an operator. This is our root issue, not having too many admins. Exactly, there's my fundamental point for years, has it ever been addressed? No, because people are more content with this community dying than a problem being acknowledged let alone solutions implemented, see the suggestion on file right now being denied despite it literally just being a merge of a useless distinction between 2 admin ranks. If people were to ever acknowledge a problem, it would be when it's too late and people would have lost interest in keeping this community online and existent. It's a shame that the current owner we have hasn't acknowledged or addressed this problem in any means whatsoever, feels like we're just coasting into nothingness. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:26:23 GMT
"If I recall correctly," "maybe," "very recently," sure. Put your money where your mouth is, because I'm not impressed by our standard of excellence being a dozen people online and the vast majority of them either being admins or former admins. Im sure other admins can back me up with those peaks, it isnt unusual for a decline in playerbase when its late at night. Also, on the topic of the OP - how would you manage to cut down on the admins "based off if they are good"? It seems dumb to me that you ask admins to be active and to do their jobs while nit picking which admins are definitively *better* despite there no real way of finding out. Show me the data then. I'm sure it's not an unheard of concept to monitor the activity of a Minecraft server, certainly we are able to analyze the actual ratio of admins to players and the total number of people online for every time and not conjecture any data. |
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
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Post by square on Jul 1, 2020 23:34:52 GMT
Im sure other admins can back me up with those peaks, it isnt unusual for a decline in playerbase when its late at night. Also, on the topic of the OP - how would you manage to cut down on the admins "based off if they are good"? It seems dumb to me that you ask admins to be active and to do their jobs while nit picking which admins are definitively *better* despite there no real way of finding out. Show me the data then. I'm sure it's not an unheard of concept to monitor the activity of a Minecraft server, certainly we are able to analyze the actual ratio of admins to players and the total number of people online for every time and not conjecture any data. the data? sure i would however its midnight and im on phone. ask dragon for the 50 player peak scs and im sure theres resources to prove those peaks. yet, while people would pat themselves on the back, the majority of those 50 ops wouldve come on for a day or a week and left. with the server and plugin stability, the player retention is extremely low and the only real thing that active ops strive for is admin. this is not good - as kae stated - and before we throw something at the wall such as asking more youtubers, we need to actually fix the core issue which hopefully should appear in future suggestions. slashing admins or forcing them to do their job in quotas wont help the inevitable fact that the op count isnt going to magically rise and stay there forever |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:38:51 GMT
Show me the data then. I'm sure it's not an unheard of concept to monitor the activity of a Minecraft server, certainly we are able to analyze the actual ratio of admins to players and the total number of people online for every time and not conjecture any data. the data? sure i would however its midnight and im on phone. ask dragon for the 50 player peak scs and im sure theres resources to prove those peaks. yet, while people would pat themselves on the back, the majority of those 50 ops wouldve come on for a day or a week and left. with the server and plugin stability, the player retention is extremely low and the only real thing that active ops strive for is admin. this is not good - as kae stated - and before we throw something at the wall such as asking more youtubers, we need to actually fix the core issue which hopefully should appear in future suggestions. slashing admins or forcing them to do their job in quotas wont help the inevitable fact that the op count isnt going to magically rise and stay there forever If your argument is that the screenshots on this thread are cherry-picked then what good would opposite-showing cherry-picked images show me? I'd like to see some sort of data showing a trend for timezones, not anecdotes or images. I'd like to see what our true primetime consistently looks like, because I certainly know how it resembled back in the day. You're correct in recognizing a problem, and I already agreed with you that we shouldn't introduce quotas to the admin system because it's inappropriate for a job which deals in punishments on a freedom server, but if the admins here have agreed that there isn't a problem and we should decline is there a point in posting more suggestions doomed to dust? |
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burger
Registered
fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Jul 1, 2020 23:42:06 GMT
Just a quick disclaimer, these screenshots we're not chosen at all. A couple of days ago I decided to make a thread like this and took a shot in-game to prove the ridiculous amount of admins. I got a screenshot from fionn and decided to put in one more where I literally joined the server, took the shot, and went afk.
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