square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
| Likes: 1,291
|
Post by square on Jul 1, 2020 23:44:03 GMT
the data? sure i would however its midnight and im on phone. ask dragon for the 50 player peak scs and im sure theres resources to prove those peaks. yet, while people would pat themselves on the back, the majority of those 50 ops wouldve come on for a day or a week and left. with the server and plugin stability, the player retention is extremely low and the only real thing that active ops strive for is admin. this is not good - as kae stated - and before we throw something at the wall such as asking more youtubers, we need to actually fix the core issue which hopefully should appear in future suggestions. slashing admins or forcing them to do their job in quotas wont help the inevitable fact that the op count isnt going to magically rise and stay there forever If your argument is that the screenshots on this thread are cherry-picked then what good would opposite-showing cherry-picked images show me? I'd like to see some sort of data showing a trend for timezones, not anecdotes or images. I'd like to see what our true primetime consistently looks like, because I certainly know how it resembled back in the day. You're correct in recognizing a problem, and I already agreed with you that we shouldn't introduce quotas to the admin system because it's inappropriate for a job which deals in punishments on a freedom server, but if the admins here have agreed that there isn't a problem and we should decline is there a point in posting more suggestions doomed to dust? im unsure if theres a specific way to find player activity at certain times (might be inside the activity log page), you may need to ask others for non-anecdotal/photographic evidence. how do you propose that we could start on fixing this? |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 1, 2020 23:49:26 GMT
If your argument is that the screenshots on this thread are cherry-picked then what good would opposite-showing cherry-picked images show me? I'd like to see some sort of data showing a trend for timezones, not anecdotes or images. I'd like to see what our true primetime consistently looks like, because I certainly know how it resembled back in the day. You're correct in recognizing a problem, and I already agreed with you that we shouldn't introduce quotas to the admin system because it's inappropriate for a job which deals in punishments on a freedom server, but if the admins here have agreed that there isn't a problem and we should decline is there a point in posting more suggestions doomed to dust? im unsure if theres a specific way to find player activity at certain times (might be inside the activity log page), you may need to ask others for non-anecdotal/photographic evidence. how do you propose that we could start on fixing this?  |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:55:05 GMT
If your argument is that the screenshots on this thread are cherry-picked then what good would opposite-showing cherry-picked images show me? I'd like to see some sort of data showing a trend for timezones, not anecdotes or images. I'd like to see what our true primetime consistently looks like, because I certainly know how it resembled back in the day. You're correct in recognizing a problem, and I already agreed with you that we shouldn't introduce quotas to the admin system because it's inappropriate for a job which deals in punishments on a freedom server, but if the admins here have agreed that there isn't a problem and we should decline is there a point in posting more suggestions doomed to dust? im unsure if theres a specific way to find player activity at certain times (might be inside the activity log page), you may need to ask others for non-anecdotal/photographic evidence. how do you propose that we could start on fixing this? Ideally, Seth would back off the more regressive ideas such as introducing a premium donator rank and perks and permanently enabling offline mode, and start off a community-engaged process of discussing the problem and comprehensive solutions that can be implemented to reform the way we do things. Suggestions get posted all the time to incrementally do this, but they either get rejected and/or ignored. It would be great to have the owner of the server acknowledge a problem and create a platform to fix it. |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 23:57:09 GMT
im unsure if theres a specific way to find player activity at certain times (might be inside the activity log page), you may need to ask others for non-anecdotal/photographic evidence. how do you propose that we could start on fixing this? Lucky to get even that many players with that insanely high downtime, christ almighty. Those peaks and statistics do not impress me at all considering that this server would max out its slots above that best peak on May 8th basically every day. |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 2, 2020 0:00:28 GMT
im unsure if theres a specific way to find player activity at certain times (might be inside the activity log page), you may need to ask others for non-anecdotal/photographic evidence. how do you propose that we could start on fixing this? Ideally, Seth would back off the more regressive ideas such as introducing a premium donator rank and perks and permanently enabling offline mode, and start off a community-engaged process of discussing the problem and comprehensive solutions that can be implemented to reform the way we do things. Suggestions get posted all the time to incrementally do this, but they either get rejected and/or ignored. It would be great to have the owner of the server acknowledge a problem and create a platform to fix it. I really don't think the root of the problem is in a Donator rank or in Offlinemode at all, I think the issues you have with those are a relic from 10 years ago that aren't necessary at all for a server to grow in this day and age. While I definitely see the issues brought up in this thread I strongly disagree with the notion that enabling onlinemode or removing a Donator rank is what's holding us back or even the start of what's holding us back at all. |
|
Darth
Veteran Member
Server Liaison
Posts: 2,534
| Likes: 1,826
|
Post by Darth on Jul 2, 2020 0:04:14 GMT
I'd like to point out that while I am working to get big YouTubers on the server, this by itself will not increase player retention (or in other words, will not inherently make the server more enticing to stay on) - there are other things that should be addressed. Sure, a couple of big youtube videos might make the server explode for a time, but if we don't make the user experience more friendly than eventually that new playerbase will fizzle out.
For now, I think closing admin applications would be a good first step.
|
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 2, 2020 0:05:06 GMT
Ideally, Seth would back off the more regressive ideas such as introducing a premium donator rank and perks and permanently enabling offline mode, and start off a community-engaged process of discussing the problem and comprehensive solutions that can be implemented to reform the way we do things. Suggestions get posted all the time to incrementally do this, but they either get rejected and/or ignored. It would be great to have the owner of the server acknowledge a problem and create a platform to fix it. I really don't think the root of the problem is in a Donator rank or in Offlinemode at all, I think the issues you have with those are a relic from 10 years ago that aren't necessary at all for a server to grow in this day and age. While I definitely see the issues brought up in this thread I strongly disagree with the notion that enabling onlinemode or removing a Donator rank is what's holding us back or even the start of what's holding us back at all. I didn't say they were "the start of what's holding us back" considering that they are more recent problems as they weren't even in the list of possible changes that would ever be made to the server years ago, if anything they are indicators of the server moving away from the freedom and equality aspects that Mark founded on and I'd say that if we continued heading in that direction it would be the final nail in the coffin. What's already been holding us back is staring at us in the face in this very thread, it's just that we're going down a direction where we continue to implement changes that will continue to do damage rather than going in a progressive direction. |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 2, 2020 0:05:31 GMT
I'd like to point out that while I am working to get big YouTubers on the server, this by itself will not increase player retention (or in other words, will not inherently make the server more enticing to stay on) - there are other things that should be addressed. Sure, a couple of big youtube videos might make the server explode for a time, but if we don't make the user experience more friendly than eventually that new playerbase will fizzle out. For now, I think closing admin applications would be a good first step. Already a suggestion on file for that... |
|
97
Veteran Member
RIP Telnet
Posts: 889
| Likes: 679
|
Post by 97 on Jul 2, 2020 0:07:37 GMT
permanently enabling offline mode It's been said many times that this is not a possibility. |
|
miwo
Veteran Member
Posts: 597
| Likes: 585
|
Post by miwo on Jul 2, 2020 0:09:56 GMT
All this shit has already been discussed in the thread I linked earlier AT LENGTH. totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/63413/admin-quality-quantity-partial-system totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/63415/admin-re-work-discussion To sum the threads up... - Rework the process for reinstating to Admin - In order to be able to retain your rank in the event that you are inactive you would have to post an inactivity notice or give a "valid" reason for your absence.
Leaving with no warning or resigning would thus mean you would have to climb your way up the Admin hierarchy again (i.e. if you were a Senior Admin, left, and then returned, you would then have to APPLY, not reinstate for Super Admin).
- Remove all fun incentives to become an Admin, and give more fun to Ops - Any "benefits" related to the Admin rank should only be to help with their job.
This would mean that the ADMIN WORLD would be REMOVED, - Give average players on Total Freedom more permissions - Less World Edit restrictions; less block restrictions; less MobDisguise restrictions, more FREEDOM to the average player
- Remove any Admin benefits that are not exclusively there to help them adminstrate - REMOVE ADMIN WORLD,
REMOVE any "fun" commands (e.g. /trail), and instead give them to all players on the server.
Having "too many Admins" on the server is not an issue. What needs to be done (and has been at length, so why the fuk this is not already a thing is beyond me) is making sure that players who become Admins only do so because they actually want to Adminstrate, and not also because they would like any perks associated with the rank. You cannot give me a cohesive argument that explains why having 5 Admins is better than having 20, but you can certainly explain to me why it makes no sense to give Admins their own BUILDING world, when they volunteered for a job that is centered on moderating the server. If you were to remove all these unnessecary benefits of becoming an Admin, then you would most likely quickly see a decrease in the overall Admin presence on Total Freedom, because now it has suddenly become fun to be an OP. There's a reason why I always reinstate for Admin / Master Builder when I have been absent from the server for a longer period of time, and that is simply because I hate, hate, hate how OPS have next-to-no options when it comes to building on the server. World Edit functions like shit, Voxel Sniper is not avaliable, no other Building plugins are even added on the server and the super-long-list of banned blocks is surely super enticing to be met with when you join what is supposedly an "all-op" server named Total Freedom. There is no reason why Admins on this server should have the perk of having their builds permanently saved on Total Freedom, whilst the average OP has to save their builds every 15 min in order to make sure their build doesn't get griefed or wiped by a server crash. If you join any other popular creative server, then you will quickly notice that these creative servers, although they don't advertise it in their name, has VASTLY more FREEDOM for players to play around with in regards to building. I find this quite embarrassing. |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 2, 2020 0:11:12 GMT
permanently enabling offline mode It's been said many times that this is not a possibility. We don't need the thread to be hijacked, it was simply a footnote in the post. State it on the thread which already exists about the subject, even though it's absolutely not true at all... |
|
Darth
Veteran Member
Server Liaison
Posts: 2,534
| Likes: 1,826
|
Post by Darth on Jul 2, 2020 0:13:42 GMT
I'd like to point out that while I am working to get big YouTubers on the server, this by itself will not increase player retention (or in other words, will not inherently make the server more enticing to stay on) - there are other things that should be addressed. Sure, a couple of big youtube videos might make the server explode for a time, but if we don't make the user experience more friendly than eventually that new playerbase will fizzle out. For now, I think closing admin applications would be a good first step. Already a suggestion on file for that... ...I wasn't making a new suggestion, I was voicing my support for the original suggestion to close admin applications? |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 2, 2020 0:14:05 GMT
All this shit has already been discussed in the thread I linked earlier. totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/63413/admin-quality-quantity-partial-system totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/63415/admin-re-work-discussion To sum the threads up... - Rework the process for reinstating to Admin - In order to be able to retain your rank in the event that you are inactive you would have to post an inactivity notice or give a "valid" reason for your absence.
Leaving with no warning or resigning would thus mean you would have to climb your way up the Admin hierarchy again (i.e. if you were a Senior Admin, left, and then returned, you would then have to APPLY, not reinstate for Super Admin).
- Remove all fun incentives to become an Admin, and give more fun to Ops - Any "benefits" related to the Admin rank should only be to help with their job.
This would mean that the ADMIN WORLD would be REMOVED, - Give average players on Total Freedom more permissions - Less World Edit restrictions; less block restrictions; less MobDisguise restrictions, more FREEDOM to the average player
- Remove any Admin benefits that are not exclusively there to help them adminstrate - REMOVE ADMIN WORLD,
REMOVE any "fun" commands (e.g. /trail), and instead give them to all players on the server.
Tepid criticism led to Seth abolishing that system he introduced, and my own suggestions to bring it back have been rejected. It's not gonna happen unless the admins here think past their own short-term enjoyment in climbing up the hierarchy and push for it to happen, which is insanely unlikely considering a simple rank merge which would hurt nobody is already being rejected. |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 2, 2020 0:14:52 GMT
Already a suggestion on file for that... ...I wasn't making a new suggestion, I was voicing my support for the original suggestion to close admin applications? I know, just bringing it up. |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 2, 2020 0:16:43 GMT
I really don't think the root of the problem is in a Donator rank or in Offlinemode at all, I think the issues you have with those are a relic from 10 years ago that aren't necessary at all for a server to grow in this day and age. While I definitely see the issues brought up in this thread I strongly disagree with the notion that enabling onlinemode or removing a Donator rank is what's holding us back or even the start of what's holding us back at all. I didn't say they were "the start of what's holding us back" considering that they are more recent problems as they weren't even in the list of possible changes that would ever be made to the server years ago, if anything they are indicators of the server moving away from the freedom and equality aspects that Mark founded on and I'd say that if we continued heading in that direction it would be the final nail in the coffin. What's already been holding us back is staring at us in the face in this very thread, it's just that we're going down a direction where we continue to implement changes that will continue to do damage rather than going in a progressive direction. and years ago in that same age if you had made a joke reinstatement and lied in it what would have been the consequences? Things change, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Our server still provides it's players with freedom to do whatever they want and if you fail to see that I don't know what to tell you. Adding a Donator title is not taking away freedom. Turning offlinemode while years ago it would have been taking away from players freedom, it's no longer as big of an issue now. We don't need to stick to Mark's 'quality aspects' in order to grow the server. A lot of the issues brought up have been an issue for as long as I remember which means that Mark's way of doing things isn't necessarily the answer to them. I find it interesting how you pick and choose the arguement of 'its how mark did it'. When we want to keep telnet and super admin separate, you find all the arguements you can against that, but if we want to change offlinemode, it's suddenly all about upholding the values mark founded the server upon. |
|
