Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jun 30, 2020 22:28:29 GMT
Spawned off a discussion on totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67425/senior-voting-query-changes and something I've thought about for a while. Currently we have 3 'Core' Ranks on the server. Super Admin, Super Telnet Admin and Senior Admin. The only difference between a super and a super telnet admin is one has remote console access. I am proposing that we remove the super admin rank entirely and collapse it into a new "Admin" Rank. This rank will have all of the access that a telnet currently does. Ultimately if we can't trust our admin's with telnet access we probably can't trust them to administer in game any way and I think the benefits outweigh the minimal risk model that there is to allowing remote console access to trusted administrators. I suspect this will then need some other things to change, but that should remain outside of the scope of this suggestion so we can start making progressive change without trying to change the entire world at once. Please use the poll to vote, and feel free to discuss
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 30, 2020 22:31:26 GMT
I say the sensible option is to merge Telnet Admin and Super Admin for right now, and just call it "Admin" or whatever, if we feel like it then "Moderator" and "Admin" for super and senior respectively which would make the server, forum, and discord all use the same power naming scheme.
I don't see why super admins are trusted with their in-game powers but not trusted to just simply access a remote console. More accessibility and one less rank. It made sense back in 2011/2012 (back when it was called console admin) because Mark intended it as a way to separate trustworthy admins at a time when the way to become a super admin was just Mark randomly giving it out on the sever. We have processes and systems in place now, just merge them.
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jun 30, 2020 22:32:14 GMT
Also in terms of logistics of the 'How' as I'm sure someone will ask and I'm about to go to sleep.
We simply 'Promote' all Super admins to Super Telnet admins in terms of permissions and re-name the rank. There is no real promotion and the telnet's would retain their current access, and the supers would simply gain telnet access that they never had before.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 22:42:10 GMT
Why are inactive OPs suggesting a rank reform
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jun 30, 2020 22:42:58 GMT
Why are inactive OPs suggesting a rank reform Why shouldn't I be allowed to make suggestions I feel will improve the server?
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jun 30, 2020 22:43:21 GMT
I object I don't think this is necessary.
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 30, 2020 22:43:40 GMT
Why are inactive OPs suggesting a rank reform Maybe if you read through these threads you'd find some justifications? Not really sure how I can be classified as an "inactive OP" if you were referring to me as well.
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jun 30, 2020 22:44:10 GMT
I object I don't think this is necessary. Would you care to elaborate on why you feel why it wouldn't be of benefit to simplify things?
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jun 30, 2020 22:53:09 GMT
I object I don't think this is necessary. Would you care to elaborate on why you feel why it wouldn't be of benefit to simplify things? I feel like telnets are generally more trusted super admins, they have the ability to add people to the rank below them, and are able to quickly deal with a case of a rogue admin for example. I don't think a brand new admin should have that capability. It is also a general trend that Super Admins make more mistakes seeing as they're newer admins and that's perfectly fine as they're still getting used to it. However, giving them access to saconfig and plugincontrol and the other permissions telnets have (that are very useful) wouldn't be the best course of action. Taking away these permissions as well wouldn't be a good course of action as it has been discussed before (https://totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67193/who-add-people-mb-list) telnet admins' access to saconfig is very useful to the server in the way we currently operate. I think this general 3 rank system we have going on is ideal to not include a too tall of a management hierarchy but still have some sort of hierarchy in place, with new admins (SAs), older more trusted admins (STAs), and the senior admins that are the top of the ladder to look over things.
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 30, 2020 22:55:31 GMT
Would you care to elaborate on why you feel why it wouldn't be of benefit to simplify things? I feel like telnets are generally more trusted super admins, they have the ability to add people to the rank below them, and are able to quickly deal with a case of a rogue admin for example. I don't think a brand new admin should have that capability. It is also a general trend that Super Admins make more mistakes seeing as they're newer admins and that's perfectly fine as they're still getting used to it. But giving them access to saconfig and plugincontrol and the other permissions telnets have (that are very useful) wouldn't be the best course of action. Taking away these permissions as well wouldn't be a good course of action as it has been discussed before (https://totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67193/who-add-people-mb-list) telnet admins' access to saconfig is very useful to the server in the way we currently operate. I think this general 3 rank system we have going on is ideal to not include a too tall of a management hierarchy but still have some sort of hierarchy in place, with new admins (SAs), older more trusted admins (STAs), and the senior admins that are the top of the ladder to look over things. No admin should have access to plugincontrol because it isn't the admins' job to mess with the plugins on the server, only actual system administrators or developers should have access to that and honestly that sort of falls under common sense of what tools certain groups have access to. If you can't trust super admins with the commands they already have then that just means our entire training and application system is broken and not a reason to have a pointless in-between rank.
|
|
fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
Posts: 6,157
| Likes: 4,775
|
Post by fionn on Jun 30, 2020 23:01:45 GMT
Vouch. Admin / Mod would be such a cleaner system overall and I’ve wanted this ever since the idea was introduced to me by Kae.
|
|
Luke
Veteran Member
Go home to your family, Neo
Posts: 1,124
|
Post by Luke on Jun 30, 2020 23:06:51 GMT
I don't actually understand where the problem is here, I'd like to know two things before voting
1) Where is the problem with the current admin system 2) As well as this, why should we keep it?
|
|
Michelle
Veteran Member
ok
Posts: 520
| Likes: 1,021
|
Post by Michelle on Jun 30, 2020 23:16:30 GMT
Vouch. I don’t see a problem with merging it. If you got admin, that goes to show that you have some potential and are trustworthy. At least in theory lol. Maybe this way it’ll knock some of the superiority complex some of the high ranking staff has towards SA’s and OPs lmfao.
|
|
tozzit
Veteran Member
Posts: 2,329
| Likes: 1,709
|
Post by tozzit on Jun 30, 2020 23:33:01 GMT
I object. If it aint broke dont fix it. Theres no problem here that this solves.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 23:34:32 GMT
I object. Super has always been a stepping stone with perms designed for new players who have to EARN THE TRUST of fellow admins (if they haven't already).
If we merge telnet and super, then at least remove saconfig perms from the merged rank
|
|