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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 29, 2020 20:17:19 GMT
Is this not an invalid process when the justifications for this vote off have been built upon actual disinformation and slander? I'm sure many people voted based off of completely false pretenses. You can claim people voted off false pretenses to literally any public poll. What Darth originally posted seems genuine, "Miwo has been very inactive in regards to the Master Builders. He engages with the MB team very infrequently, and is quite inactive in-game (has just over a half hour of playtime in the last month, with 8 minutes of that being registered AFK time). I do not believe he has made sufficient contributions to the server to retain his executive status, and as such an posting a poll to gather community opinion." and doesnt appear to be slander at all. I'm talking about the several pages of posts on this thread that, until Miwo had to thoroughly debunk them all himself, propagated a severely false and slanderous narrative to the point where the OP realized that it was false and wanted to withdraw the vote-off. These vote offs should not be published in such a skewed and false way to begin with, there should only be objective information.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:18:38 GMT
This is now above darth, and he doesn't get to decide whether or not to "close" the poll. The poll will stay open for a couple of weeks. What an asinine comment. Make a new poll thats unbiased and doesnt have the OP disagreeing with its premise. That can only be described as disingenious and corrupt. I cant call for a new poll because you think what has been said in this thread is false and biased. I will do what the majority asks, and right now the majority is seeing you as unfit for your executive position.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 29, 2020 20:23:07 GMT
What an asinine comment. Make a new poll thats unbiased and doesnt have the OP disagreeing with its premise. That can only be described as disingenious and corrupt. I cant call for a new poll because you think what has been said in this thread is false and biased. I will do what the majority asks, and right now the majority is seeing you as unfit for your executive position. Totally not skewed at all based on several pages of objectively false and uncharitable information right? It's easy to get a majority against somebody when there is piles of false information against them. Much of this thread holds an idea that Miwo hasn't done anything at all since being elected to the position, which is an utterly incorrect notion.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:26:14 GMT
You can claim people voted off false pretenses to literally any public poll. What Darth originally posted seems genuine, "Miwo has been very inactive in regards to the Master Builders. He engages with the MB team very infrequently, and is quite inactive in-game (has just over a half hour of playtime in the last month, with 8 minutes of that being registered AFK time). I do not believe he has made sufficient contributions to the server to retain his executive status, and as such an posting a poll to gather community opinion." and doesnt appear to be slander at all. I'm talking about the several pages of posts on this thread that, until Miwo had to thoroughly debunk them all himself, propagated a severely false and slanderous narrative to the point where the OP realized that it was false and wanted to withdraw the vote-off. These vote offs should not be published in such a skewed and false way to begin with, there should only be objective information. So in the future do you not want to allow any additional information besides "Should [blank] be removed from their executive position" because i really don't see a way beyond that to only have objective information. People have the right to use their own experiences with Miwo to make a claim, and whether or not that claim is actually true or false doesn't matter in my opinion. Miwo has every right to defute these claims, reestablishing his position and correcting where people may have been led astray with false information. Its the responsibility of the people to vote yes or no, and remaking a poll when this one already has quite a bit of votes feels wrong to me.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:28:23 GMT
I cant call for a new poll because you think what has been said in this thread is false and biased. I will do what the majority asks, and right now the majority is seeing you as unfit for your executive position. Totally not skewed at all based on several pages of objectively false and uncharitable information right? It's easy to get a majority against somebody when there is piles of false information against them. Much of this thread holds an idea that Miwo hasn't done anything at all since being elected to the position, which is an utterly incorrect notion. A majority is a majority, and whether or not you disagree with their opinion doesnt change that
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 29, 2020 20:31:14 GMT
I'm talking about the several pages of posts on this thread that, until Miwo had to thoroughly debunk them all himself, propagated a severely false and slanderous narrative to the point where the OP realized that it was false and wanted to withdraw the vote-off. These vote offs should not be published in such a skewed and false way to begin with, there should only be objective information. So in the future do you not want to allow any additional information besides "Should [blank] be removed from their executive position" because i really don't see a way beyond that to only have objective information. People have the right to use their own experiences with Miwo to make a claim, and whether or not that claim is actually true or false doesn't matter in my opinion. Miwo has every right to defute these claims, reestablishing his position and correcting where people may have been led astray with false information. Its the responsibility of the people to vote yes or no, and remaking a poll when this one already has quite a bit of votes feels wrong to me. Why? The op disagrees with the premise, and now you are forcing them to keep the poll up despite their wishes - this entire poll is heavily skewed to all hell. Corrupt is the most fitting word.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 29, 2020 20:32:31 GMT
Totally not skewed at all based on several pages of objectively false and uncharitable information right? It's easy to get a majority against somebody when there is piles of false information against them. Much of this thread holds an idea that Miwo hasn't done anything at all since being elected to the position, which is an utterly incorrect notion. A majority is a majority, and whether or not you disagree with their opinion doesnt change that A majority based on a false premise and a majority that has yet to actually be determined (poll wasnt supposed to be closed after a single fukin day...) Corrupt
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:33:34 GMT
A majority is a majority, and whether or not you disagree with their opinion doesnt change that A majority based on a false premise and a majority that has yet to actually be determined (poll wasnt supposed to be closed after a single fukin day...) Corrupt I agree that the vote hasn't been decided yet and thus the poll shouldn't be closed?
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 29, 2020 20:35:48 GMT
A majority based on a false premise and a majority that has yet to actually be determined (poll wasnt supposed to be closed after a single fukin day...) Corrupt I agree that the vote hasn't been decided yet and thus the poll shouldn't be closed? Agreed - start a new and fair poll. According to your logic, I should still be permbanned, because people voted yes before they knew I was being framed by another Admin.
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Zaid
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Post by Zaid on Jun 29, 2020 20:42:07 GMT
I suggest adding some sort of process before a vote-off is posted. Since we now have the 3 month approval polls, I feel like vote-offs should be a last resort for when an executive is truly unfit for their position. Otherwise, we can let the 3 month polls speak for themselves.
Perhaps having a "vote-off discussion" thread before the vote-off itself can prevent situations like these where some of the info provided may be skewed. After the community is shown the facts in the discussion thread, a locked thread similar to a voting thread can be posted where the community can either keep or remove the exec after they have all the facts.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 29, 2020 20:42:30 GMT
I'm talking about the several pages of posts on this thread that, until Miwo had to thoroughly debunk them all himself, propagated a severely false and slanderous narrative to the point where the OP realized that it was false and wanted to withdraw the vote-off. These vote offs should not be published in such a skewed and false way to begin with, there should only be objective information. So in the future do you not want to allow any additional information besides "Should [blank] be removed from their executive position" because i really don't see a way beyond that to only have objective information. People have the right to use their own experiences with Miwo to make a claim, and whether or not that claim is actually true or false doesn't matter in my opinion. Miwo has every right to defute these claims, reestablishing his position and correcting where people may have been led astray with false information. Its the responsibility of the people to vote yes or no, and remaking a poll when this one already has quite a bit of votes feels wrong to me. Like 90% of the poll votes were made prior to any corrections being made at all. I don't see how just because it would be ideal for absolutely everybody to read through this entire thread before voting is an excuse to keep a vote based on invalid information. If you put a proposition on a ballot with a justification next to it which was entirely made up, people will vote for it. I think the truth absolutely does matter in a formal process like this considering that it was literally made on false pretenses that have been asserted as reality despite not being true at all, and that is what people have voted based on. I think that vote-offs should only include facts that are objectively correct with direct, accessible proof to them, not lies.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:51:26 GMT
A new poll will be made simply stating "Should Miwo be removed from ECD"
I just wanted to say throwing out 50+ votes feels incredibly wrong to me.
Yesterday the vote was 15-2 to remove miwo, and today its 29-21. It seems to me process is working, and people are actually changing their mind but to make it "fair" we have to do this.
Never again will polls be completely ignored or refuted by claims of them being biased.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 29, 2020 20:55:56 GMT
Never again will polls be completely ignored or refuted by claims of them being biased. Why...?
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 20:57:19 GMT
Never again will polls be completely ignored or refuted by claims of them being biased. Why...? Because if its what the people want then they should get it?
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 29, 2020 21:04:37 GMT
Because a bulk of the information is here, this thread will be kept open to allow further discussion.
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