Jay
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:17:49 GMT
The presidential elections casts a popular vote, but a president will not make it in office if the house of representatives do not vote him in. This is the same fucking thing. If people in power do not believe you should be in power, it doesn't matter what the public thinks. That's the problem with casting decisions JUST on the popular vote. If everyone were fit to run and make decisions for TF, everyone would be a top ranked admin. The electoral college system (which you described here) the electoral college was established in 1787 when only 60% of u.s. citizens were literate and 40% of the people living in the south were slaves who could not vote. I assume most people can read on TF. why should their vote not count? Because they don't run the server, because they don't have the proper ideology to keep policies in tact.
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Post by zekurt on Aug 13, 2020 6:18:26 GMT
Don't we have the IA for exactly this purpose? They've proven in multiple scenarios that they are directly intertwined with this very issue. When?
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:19:13 GMT
At the end of the day its still 1 person = 1 vote. Thats about as fair as it gets. Me, Fionn, or Seth dont magically get 5 votes and the ability to change the decision of a poll based on our rank. however, and this has been previously stated, as a person with a high reputation, people look apon your vote and think "well they said it, so i should agree too" You cannot see votes on a poll
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 6:19:43 GMT
You have purposefully removed any and all context from that conversation to make it look harmless. If anyone banned an OP for building a slave owner whipping a shackled slave, I'd remove them from admin, OH WAIT, we do that because its fucking sickening and you having a red name and you "just joking" doesn't excuse shit. Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Then when the owner says something and you argue with him when comes to his calls? That's legit stupid. Read this again :
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:20:18 GMT
You have purposefully removed any and all context from that conversation to make it look harmless. If anyone banned an OP for building a slave owner whipping a shackled slave, I'd remove them from admin, OH WAIT, we do that because its fucking sickening and you having a red name and you "just joking" doesn't excuse shit. Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Also the build pasted has been there for like a year LOL. this has nothing to do of what was said in discord and definitely nothing to do with me making that "african american joke" If you're going to remove me for the build which i was allowed to do, and making a "racist" joke then why dont we remove seth for saying nigger? Apparently not considering you think him, as the OWNER, removing execs he believes to be wrongfully administrating, is abusive and against policy, but he's allowed to veto and allow racial and offensive/derogatory builds. If you wondered why we called this thread, this is why. You bend and twist things in your favor, frequently.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:21:11 GMT
Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Then when the owner says something and you argue with him with comes to his calls? That's legit stupid. Read this again : Im subject to removal for calling someone a joke? I 100% stand by my point. If seth is willing to throw up 4+ policies signed and drafted by the community then he's absolutely a joke. Its sickening that you can even contemplate to do that.
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Aug 13, 2020 6:21:41 GMT
however, and this has been previously stated, as a person with a high reputation, people look apon your vote and think "well they said it, so i should agree too" You cannot see votes on a poll 1) forum admins can 2) a lot of voting is done via the object/vouch system, even when theirs a poll, people still clearly show their opinions in the rest of the thread
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:22:15 GMT
Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Also the build pasted has been there for like a year LOL. this has nothing to do of what was said in discord and definitely nothing to do with me making that "african american joke" If you're going to remove me for the build which i was allowed to do, and making a "racist" joke then why dont we remove seth for saying nigger? Apparently not considering you think him, as the OWNER, removing execs he believes to be wrongfully administrating, is abusive and against policy, but he's allowed to veto and allow racial and offensive/derogatory builds. If you wondered why we called this thread, this is why. You bend and twist things in your favor, frequently. Seth 100% has the authority to just remove me, im not saying thats not the case. Do I think is the wrong move? yes. Do the policies say you shouldnt? Yes.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:22:47 GMT
You cannot see votes on a poll 1) forum admins can 2) a lot of voting is done via the object/vouch system, even when theirs a poll, people still clearly show their opinions in the rest of the thread There's no better way to do a poll. There's just not. everyone has differing opinions
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:23:01 GMT
Then when the owner says something and you argue with him with comes to his calls? That's legit stupid. Read this again : <IMAGE> Im subject to removal for calling someone a joke? I 100% stand by my point. If seth is willing to throw up 4+ policies signed and drafted by the community then he's absolutely a joke. Its sickening that you can even contemplate to do that. Like I just said in my previous post, seth "allowing you" to build a deragatory racial build is not an overstep of power and violation of policy, and it makes it okay, but when he feels something is wrong in the team, and wants to act as the OWNER and sole holder of power/financial stake in the server, its abuse. Not how it works! Seth lets half the shit fly that flies because he's probably afraid to be a fucking owner. EDIT: Policies are policies, but the owner OWNS the server, and can do whatever he sees fit for the server. To take a suggestion of abuse as a joke and reference jokes about seths history which tie back to racism, is the worst thing ive EVER seen.
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Zaid
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When it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
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Post by Zaid on Aug 13, 2020 6:23:36 GMT
Isn't the exec team, by definition, a "powerhouse"? As in, a group of people with a lot of power on TF due to the fact that they are the highest ranking officers on the server? Either way, I haven't seen anything abusive from IA. I do concede that they way people are "recruited" is a bit odd, but other than that I've had nothing but positive encounters with them. If you don't like the way things are going, we have the upcoming approval rating surveys to see the overall opinion. However, other actions taken lately are indeed seemingly abusive to an extent. And they weren't done by the exec team. For instance, the whole quirky reveal of the forum was extremely disappointing to say the least. You may be the owner, but the forum was an essential form of checks and balances due to the fact that Finest has ultimate power. You also didn't even make an attempt to address many of the points brought up about the forum being switched over to a new host. Privacy concerns, the sheer amount of info on this forum, and security on the new forum should've all been addressed in a clear thread. As someone who was a part of an executive team that was most definitely an abusive powerhouse, I've got to say, this is probably the most transparent exec team we've had. The only remnant of the old "powerhouse" exec team is you. I find this to be completely one sided, as you are completely ignoring the fact that he made a racial joke, pasted a build of slavery and threatened to remove his ownership by vote out. And yes, and executive is a powerhouse, but when the powerhouse is coming from your personal beliefs as an individual and not the betterment of TF then thats when it becomes a problem. For you to completely disregard all of sks' mistakes and to suggest seth is a powerhouse and remnant of an abusive team because he didn't address the forum in the way you wanted him to is just crazy. Relax, you've been back for like a week. The irony of this is that Kae had Seth's permission to have that build and it was made before the zero tolerance policy was enacted. If you're going to judge by how things were before then, I think you'll be quite surprised with the way people acted before it. Everyone, including Seth, made racial jokes and used racial slurs due to them not being prohibited. This build is simply a remnant of the pre-zero tolerance era. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. The forum was an example.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:24:23 GMT
Im subject to removal for calling someone a joke? I 100% stand by my point. If seth is willing to throw up 4+ policies signed and drafted by the community then he's absolutely a joke. Its sickening that you can even contemplate to do that. Like I just said in my previous post, seth "allowing you" to build a deragatory racial build is not an overstep of power and violation of policy, and it makes it okay, but when he feels something is wrong in the team, and wants to act as the OWNER and sole holder of power/financial stake in the server, its abuse. Not how it works! Seth lets half the shit fly that flies because he's probably afraid to be a fucking owner. Yes it is abuse to break policy. I don't care who you are. Seth should not be above the rules, and its why we have the ownership policy in place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 6:24:53 GMT
Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Also the build pasted has been there for like a year LOL. this has nothing to do of what was said in discord and definitely nothing to do with me making that "african american joke" If you're going to remove me for the build which i was allowed to do, and making a "racist" joke then why dont we remove seth for saying nigger? Apparently not considering you think him, as the OWNER, removing execs he believes to be wrongfully administrating, is abusive and against policy, but he's allowed to veto and allow racial and offensive/derogatory builds. If you wondered why we called this thread, this is why. You bend and twist things in your favor, frequently. And on top of this it's not my decision alone. This entire thing was never going to happen if people never told me they believe something is left. Sometimes I think it is me. There are times when I doubt my own abilities to draw the line myself, and honestly if the majority of people felt like I'm not able to lead them, I'll step aside and execute the ownership policy, and help for a smooth transition over.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:26:08 GMT
Apparently not considering you think him, as the OWNER, removing execs he believes to be wrongfully administrating, is abusive and against policy, but he's allowed to veto and allow racial and offensive/derogatory builds. If you wondered why we called this thread, this is why. You bend and twist things in your favor, frequently. And on top of this it's not my decision alone. This entire thing was never going to happen if people never told me they believe something is left. Sometimes I think it is me. There are times when I doubt my own abilities to draw the line myself, and honestly if the majority of people felt like I'm not able to lead them, I'll step aside and execute the ownership policy, and help for a smooth transition over. I have not broken any policy to be removed. You breaking the 4+ policies put in place to deal with this is breaking policy. See the difference?
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 6:26:17 GMT
Then when the owner says something and you argue with him with comes to his calls? That's legit stupid. Read this again : Im subject to removal for calling someone a joke? I 100% stand by my point. If seth is willing to throw up 4+ policies signed and drafted by the community then he's absolutely a joke. Its sickening that you can even contemplate to do that. if Seth made a discussion, no matter if it's throwing all policies out of the window or kicking all executives they're done for a reason. You have made race jokes when there was a serious matters and here is the thing, I don't give a shit 'bout the jokes but when comes to our own EAO taking this as a joke and then ignoring him and THEN threating him to be voted off that's an absolute joke and you're indeed a subject of removal not for the joke, I never said that.
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