Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:26:59 GMT
I find this to be completely one sided, as you are completely ignoring the fact that he made a racial joke, pasted a build of slavery and threatened to remove his ownership by vote out. And yes, and executive is a powerhouse, but when the powerhouse is coming from your personal beliefs as an individual and not the betterment of TF then thats when it becomes a problem. For you to completely disregard all of sks' mistakes and to suggest seth is a powerhouse and remnant of an abusive team because he didn't address the forum in the way you wanted him to is just crazy. Relax, you've been back for like a week. The irony of this is that Kae had Seth's permission to have that build and it was made before the zero tolerance policy was enacted. If you're going to judge by how things were before then, I think you'll be quite surprised with the way people acted before it. Everyone, including Seth, made racial jokes and used racial slurs due to them not being prohibited. This build is simply a remnant of the pre-zero tolerance era. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. The forum was an example. Here you are, invalidating my opinion because I've been back for a week. You're right, and the fact that I can learn this much about TF in a week is exactly why people are talking rn. I've been here since 2013 and I've stopped back periodically over the years to check, so I know more than you probably think. You're speaking as if this opinion is just something I fabricated to come back and take over. I say the shit I say because it's happening, nothing more or less.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:27:16 GMT
Im subject to removal for calling someone a joke? I 100% stand by my point. If seth is willing to throw up 4+ policies signed and drafted by the community then he's absolutely a joke. Its sickening that you can even contemplate to do that. if Seth made a discussion, no matter if it's throwing all policies out of the window or kicking all executives they're done for a reason. You have made race jokes when there was a serious matters and here is the thing, I don't give a shit 'bout the jokes but when comes to our own EAO taking this as a joke and then ignoring him and THEN threating him to be voted off that's an absolute joke and you're indeed a subject of removal not for the joke, I never said that. Nothing i did in the exec groupchat is subject for removal. Maybe you should read the policies i wrote again.
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:28:50 GMT
And on top of this it's not my decision alone. This entire thing was never going to happen if people never told me they believe something is left. Sometimes I think it is me. There are times when I doubt my own abilities to draw the line myself, and honestly if the majority of people felt like I'm not able to lead them, I'll step aside and execute the ownership policy, and help for a smooth transition over. I have not broken any policy to be removed. You breaking the 4+ policies put in place to deal with this is breaking policy. See the difference? What you believe, and what we have witnessed from contextual evidence says different. If an executive is making racial jokes and builds, and threatening vote off, I don't want him managing the community I partake in I also forget where in our policies that the owner is an executive, and not higher than them. He OWNS the server and PAYS for it to run. Simple.
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:30:15 GMT
if Seth made a discussion, no matter if it's throwing all policies out of the window or kicking all executives they're done for a reason. You have made race jokes when there was a serious matters and here is the thing, I don't give a shit 'bout the jokes but when comes to our own EAO taking this as a joke and then ignoring him and THEN threating him to be voted off that's an absolute joke and you're indeed a subject of removal not for the joke, I never said that. Nothing i did in the exec groupchat is subject for removal. Maybe you should read the policies i wrote again. totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/66374/tolerance-policy-racism-homophobia-transphobiaokay, lol.
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Post by zekurt on Aug 13, 2020 6:30:25 GMT
A group of likeminded individuals are attempting to convince everyone else that the executive team is full of likeminded individuals and must be removed. Nice to see screenshots from a private group chat are being shared like candy. The owner streaming his disagreements with the executives to the very people orchestrating this is fucking ridiculous. If you want kae to act nicer in private discussions, don't start it off by threatening to remove her against policy.
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:30:58 GMT
I have not broken any policy to be removed. You breaking the 4+ policies put in place to deal with this is breaking policy. See the difference? What you believe, and what we have witnessed from contextual evidence says different. If an executive is making racial jokes and builds, and threatening vote off, I don't want him managing the community I partake in I also forget where in our policies that the owner is an executive, and not higher than them. He OWNS the server and PAYS for it to run. Simple. Again, not grounds for removal, despite what you say. You do not have the authority to say whats grounds for removal. Read the administrative conduct policy. Seth only pays and owns the server because we voted him in with a policy. See how stupid that is to not follow policies?
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Aug 13, 2020 6:32:06 GMT
This thread seems comical. On one hand you've an administrator supposing an executive be removed for building something in-game (seriously?) and on the other, a slew of unsubstantiated claims made against people with no apparent cause other than "higher ups bad."
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:32:06 GMT
"zero tolerance policy on racial slurs, homophobic slurs, transphobic slurs, and other really offensive things around those areas." I said african american, which is not a slur. How is saying we need more african american admins to have more diversity offensive?
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:32:17 GMT
A group of likeminded individuals are attempting to convince everyone else that the executive team is full of likeminded individuals and must be removed. Nice to see screenshots from a private group chat are being shared like candy. The owner streaming his disagreements with the executives to the very people orchestrating this is fucking ridiculous. What matters isn't that there are groups of consensus, it's under what basis the consensus takes place. We aren't suggesting it's wrong that the execs agree on and carry out things, it's the way they do it. Personal view, feeling, emotion, beliefs.
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serrif
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Posts: 440
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Post by serrif on Aug 13, 2020 6:32:54 GMT
Honestly it saddens me because ever since I’ve come back I’ve seen a lot of positive suggestions being made about how to improve the server as it moves forward. So like yes I think the Executive team could use some differences in opinion but I’m pretty satisfied with how things have been running since I’ve been back (for the most part). I joined IA just because I felt like I actually had a different and unique opinion to offer and wouldn’t just blindly rubber stamp anything that came up. zevante can definitely confirm I’ve given him a lot of my (sometimes harsh) feedback on the team. Sometimes though I just feel like so much is done behind closed doors that it’s just kind of spooky because we don’t really know how the Executives vote on certain things. So I really have no idea how aligned (or not) the opinions of the Executives are. However if I were an executive now being told to “defend myself” in this public thread I’d be kind of pissed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 6:33:16 GMT
And on top of this it's not my decision alone. This entire thing was never going to happen if people never told me they believe something is left. Sometimes I think it is me. There are times when I doubt my own abilities to draw the line myself, and honestly if the majority of people felt like I'm not able to lead them, I'll step aside and execute the ownership policy, and help for a smooth transition over. I have not broken any policy to be removed. You breaking the 4+ policies put in place to deal with this is breaking policy. See the difference? I also believe if we need to change policies for the betterment of the server, then I will do that. Sometimes there are issues with policies, and in some cases they might also have to be bypassed. It's all circumstantial. This entire thing is a mess, I have conflicting feelings about all of it. As the owner of the server, leader of the community, sometimes you have to bend the rules to do whats right. I'm sorry how bull shit it sounds, but that's how it is. At least it's how I feel dude, I don't know, again, this is brought up.
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grntbg
Full Member
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Posts: 295
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Post by grntbg on Aug 13, 2020 6:34:16 GMT
A group of likeminded individuals are attempting to convince everyone else that the executive team is full of likeminded individuals and must be removed. Nice to see screenshots from a private group chat are being shared like candy. The owner streaming his disagreements with the executives to the very people orchestrating this is fucking ridiculous. What matters isn't that there are groups of consensus, it's under what basis the consensus takes place. We aren't suggesting it's wrong that the execs agree on and carry out things, it's the way they do it. Personal view, feeling, emotion, beliefs. On what premise do you hold this opinion because I've never seen the admin officer (or whoever is being referred to in "agreeing on the basis of personal emotion") do something like this.
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:34:21 GMT
This thread seems comical. On one hand you've an administrator supposing an executive be removed for building something in-game (seriously?) and on the other, a slew of unsubstantiated claims made against people with no apparent cause other than "higher ups bad." If you truly believe this, you're purposely skimming the thread LOL. We posted screenshot evidence, with complete context and yet because it's a gray area, and doesn't DEFINITIVELY fall under any specific sentence in our policy, it's completely out of the discussion. This is a joke! The fact that admins can act like this and simply justify it all with "only kidding relax u fuckin ass" is ridiculous!
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nick
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Posts: 766
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 6:34:30 GMT
A group of likeminded individuals are attempting to convince everyone else that the executive team is full of likeminded individuals and must be removed. Nice to see screenshots from a private group chat are being shared like candy. The owner streaming his disagreements with the executives to the very people orchestrating this is fucking ridiculous. If you want kae to act nicer in private discussions, don't start it off by threatening to remove her against policy. Now that's bullshit, Seth don't stream just because he wanted to share his disagreement but because we told him to talk to the executive team and get their opinions, it's SKS's response that got us by shock. If you witnessed the amount of disrespect that was shown from Kae to Seth, it was 100% out of order.
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zeseryu
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Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:34:49 GMT
I have not broken any policy to be removed. You breaking the 4+ policies put in place to deal with this is breaking policy. See the difference? I also believe if we need to change policies for the betterment of the server, then I will do that. Sometimes there are issues with policies, and in some cases they might also have to be bypassed. It's all circumstantial. This entire thing is a mess, I have conflicting feelings about all of it. As the owner of the server, leader of the community, sometimes you have to bend the rules to do whats right. I'm sorry how bull shit it sounds, but that's how it is. At least it's how I feel dude, I don't know, again, this is brought up. You havent even given the policies put into place to deal with abuse a chance. You are changing it because of what "you" think is right. Im sorry dude but you are a 15 year old kid. Im going to take the policy written and drafted by the community of 30+ people over your opinion of whats "right"
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