nick
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 6:09:50 GMT
You're a joke, Seth was being serious 'bout this issue and you just happened to have a race joke? Unacceptable. Also, lets not forget the part where when Seth quested your position in power you threated to get him voted off. He threatens to vote me off, i threaten to vote him off to show the double standards. That's it. I think seth is a good owner, i wouldn't actually vote him off. I was showing how stupid his argument was False, I witnessed Seth talking in the Exec group, he didn't threaten to vote you off. If so, proof it. Myself and others witnessed how you acted after Seth was talking to you 'bout a serious matter and you just started joking around like it's not a problem. I'm very glad that our own EAO doesn't know what "powerhouse" means.
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:10:13 GMT
Chill out. The EAO should not be dethroned over a race-joke nor a racial build. This thread is about the allocation of power within the exec team. The fact that you believe that's true when we ban OPs for it is fucking comical! If anyone banned someone for saying "Oh i think we should have an African american on the exec team" i would remove them from admin.
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:11:32 GMT
the major flaw with all of those things is the bias that they are based apon, many people are voting not based on what is best for the server, but on who they like the most so you want to go against the popular majority? ok that sounds good. Lets let dragon and co decide whats best for the server. No, thats not how you do things. You like the public decide what they want and go from there. Thats how i've been doing it since i as AEAO and EAO. I think its disrespectful to do it any other way. The presidential elections casts a popular vote, but a president will not make it in office if the house of representatives do not vote him in. This is the same fucking thing. If people in power do not believe you should be in power, it doesn't matter what the public thinks. That's the problem with casting decisions JUST on the popular vote. If everyone were fit to run and make decisions for TF, everyone would be a top ranked admin.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:11:35 GMT
so you want to go against the popular majority? ok that sounds good. Lets let dragon and co decide whats best for the server. No, thats not how you do things. You like the public decide what they want and go from there. Thats how i've been doing it since i as AEAO and EAO. I think its disrespectful to do it any other way. I don’t agree with what he’s saying, but what I think he’s trying to say is that the most respected people (eg. Seth, you, Fionn, etc) tend to sway the votes one way or another except you cannot sway votes on polls like that. There's discussion of course, but are you going to limit out discussion for the sake of what YOU think is best for the server? No you cant thats just not fair to the majority. At the end of the day its still 1 person = 1 vote. Thats about as fair as it gets. Me, Fionn, or Seth dont magically get 5 votes and the ability to change the decision of a poll based on our rank.
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 6:12:05 GMT
The fact that you believe that's true when we ban OPs for it is fucking comical! If anyone banned someone for saying "Oh i think we should have an African american on the exec team" i would remove them from admin. What the fuck does that have to do with you not taking a matter seriously?? You should be the one removed from your position because you're not fit. I also recall you telling Seth when threating to vote him off 'bout his past and what not. What the fuck was that 'bout?
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Aug 13, 2020 6:12:12 GMT
the major flaw with all of those things is the bias that they are based apon, many people are voting not based on what is best for the server, but on who they like the most so you want to go against the popular majority? ok that sounds good. Lets let dragon and co decide whats best for the server. No, thats not how you do things. You like the public decide what they want and go from there. Thats how i've been doing it since i as AEAO and EAO. I think its disrespectful to do it any other way. the problem is that, due to the current executive team being made of a group like-minded individuals, little to no opposing viewpoints, ideals, or anything like that happen. a good team should having apposing ideals, but until that happens, any vote-off thread for these execs will be followed with other execs disagreeing and then locking/denying the thread
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Zaid
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When it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
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Post by Zaid on Aug 13, 2020 6:12:28 GMT
Isn't the exec team, by definition, a "powerhouse"? As in, a group of people with a lot of power on TF due to the fact that they are the highest ranking officers on the server?
Either way, I haven't seen anything abusive from IA. I do concede that they way people are "recruited" is a bit odd, but other than that I've had nothing but positive encounters with them. If you don't like the way things are going, we have the upcoming approval rating surveys to see the overall opinion.
However, other actions taken lately are indeed seemingly abusive to an extent. And they weren't done by the exec team. For instance, the whole quirky reveal of the forum was extremely disappointing to say the least. You may be the owner, but the forum was an essential form of checks and balances due to the fact that Finest has ultimate power. You also didn't even make an attempt to address many of the points brought up about the forum being switched over to a new host. Privacy concerns, the sheer amount of info on this forum, and security on the new forum should've all been addressed in a clear thread.
As someone who was a part of an executive team that was most definitely an abusive powerhouse, I've got to say, this is probably the most transparent exec team we've had. The only remnant of the old "powerhouse" exec team is you.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 13, 2020 6:13:15 GMT
Threads like these are a perfect example as to I despise the idea of a "vote off". These call-out threads and vote offs themselves only lead to flame wars and drama where one side doesn't get to defend themselves (as was the case of my vote off resulting in ANOTHER vote off thread). Yeah it sucks that the exec can be grossly negligent of their duties, but there's a reason why the term limit of an executive should be 3 or 4 months so the executives can be voted out once their term ends. Of course if the executive is abusing their power then they should be suspended, as is with any other Admin/Moderator on the server, but that shouldn't be done via vote off threads - that should be handled by the Internal Affairs, as that is literally their job to be as impartial as possible. if that doesn't work you still have the EAO or Seth to fall back on. Read my thread on the matter totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/68015/remove-ability-vote-off-admins?page=1&scrollTo=774510
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:13:50 GMT
The fact that you believe that's true when we ban OPs for it is fucking comical! If anyone banned someone for saying "Oh i think we should have an African american on the exec team" i would remove them from admin. You have purposefully removed any and all context from that conversation to make it look harmless. If anyone banned an OP for building a slave owner whipping a shackled slave, I'd remove them from admin, OH WAIT, we do that because its fucking sickening and you having a red name and you "just joking" doesn't excuse shit.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 13, 2020 6:14:02 GMT
Chill out. The EAO should not be dethroned over a race-joke nor a racial build. This thread is about the allocation of power within the exec team. The fact that you believe that's true when we ban OPs for it is fucking comical! Then that is an issue with the adminstrator because race-jokes are allowed.
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:14:55 GMT
so you want to go against the popular majority? ok that sounds good. Lets let dragon and co decide whats best for the server. No, thats not how you do things. You like the public decide what they want and go from there. Thats how i've been doing it since i as AEAO and EAO. I think its disrespectful to do it any other way. The presidential elections casts a popular vote, but a president will not make it in office if the house of representatives do not vote him in. This is the same fucking thing. If people in power do not believe you should be in power, it doesn't matter what the public thinks. That's the problem with casting decisions JUST on the popular vote. If everyone were fit to run and make decisions for TF, everyone would be a top ranked admin. The electoral college system (which you described here) the electoral college was established in 1787 when only 60% of u.s. citizens were literate and 40% of the people living in the south were slaves who could not vote. I assume most people can read on TF. why should their vote not count?
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:16:19 GMT
so you want to go against the popular majority? ok that sounds good. Lets let dragon and co decide whats best for the server. No, thats not how you do things. You like the public decide what they want and go from there. Thats how i've been doing it since i as AEAO and EAO. I think its disrespectful to do it any other way. the problem is that, due to the current executive team being made of a group like-minded individuals, little to no opposing viewpoints, ideals, or anything like that happen. a good team should having apposing ideals, but until that happens, any vote-off thread for these execs will be followed with other execs disagreeing and then locking/denying the thread I argue literally every single day in the exec group chat. I propose sugguestions, such as my popular builder world & color ranks change and they get locked by seth. You cannot just lock a voteoff thread. We're not Infamas man..
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Jay
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TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Aug 13, 2020 6:16:56 GMT
Isn't the exec team, by definition, a "powerhouse"? As in, a group of people with a lot of power on TF due to the fact that they are the highest ranking officers on the server? Either way, I haven't seen anything abusive from IA. I do concede that they way people are "recruited" is a bit odd, but other than that I've had nothing but positive encounters with them. If you don't like the way things are going, we have the upcoming approval rating surveys to see the overall opinion. However, other actions taken lately are indeed seemingly abusive to an extent. And they weren't done by the exec team. For instance, the whole quirky reveal of the forum was extremely disappointing to say the least. You may be the owner, but the forum was an essential form of checks and balances due to the fact that Finest has ultimate power. You also didn't even make an attempt to address many of the points brought up about the forum being switched over to a new host. Privacy concerns, the sheer amount of info on this forum, and security on the new forum should've all been addressed in a clear thread. As someone who was a part of an executive team that was most definitely an abusive powerhouse, I've got to say, this is probably the most transparent exec team we've had. The only remnant of the old "powerhouse" exec team is you. I find this to be completely one sided, as you are completely ignoring the fact that he made a racial joke, pasted a build of slavery and threatened to remove his ownership by vote out. And yes, and executive is a powerhouse, but when the powerhouse is coming from your personal beliefs as an individual and not the betterment of TF then thats when it becomes a problem. For you to completely disregard all of sks' mistakes and to suggest seth is a powerhouse and remnant of an abusive team because he didn't address the forum in the way you wanted him to is just crazy.
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Aug 13, 2020 6:17:25 GMT
At the end of the day its still 1 person = 1 vote. Thats about as fair as it gets. Me, Fionn, or Seth dont magically get 5 votes and the ability to change the decision of a poll based on our rank. however, and this has been previously stated, as a person with a high reputation, people look apon your vote and think "well they said it, so i should agree too"
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 6:17:32 GMT
If anyone banned someone for saying "Oh i think we should have an African american on the exec team" i would remove them from admin. You have purposefully removed any and all context from that conversation to make it look harmless. If anyone banned an OP for building a slave owner whipping a shackled slave, I'd remove them from admin, OH WAIT, we do that because its fucking sickening and you having a red name and you "just joking" doesn't excuse shit. Thats not what the discussion in discord was about. Read again. again, i asked seth if the build was okay. He said yes. Thats is. He's the owner right? The one who makes the finals calls? Also the build pasted has been there for like a year LOL. this has nothing to do of what was said in discord and definitely nothing to do with me making that "african american joke" If you're going to remove me for the build which i was allowed to do, and making a "racist" joke then why dont we remove seth for saying nigger?
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