square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:43:32 GMT
Are you incapable of civil discussion? By rights I’m talking about things that the other genders/sex do not have access to (which some activists fight for) such as the ability to work in women’s sports. We’re human however pitting a biological male in a women’s boxing arena for the sakes of giving everyone rights is unfair for the women involved. How am I being uncivil? At this point, you’re acting like an ass towards me. Trans people do not even take up these spots. I’m talking work wise, they don’t suddenly take up the spots of women or men? With the sports that’s a whole other issue that I’m not educated enough on to even talk about it I’m not being an ass to you, you’ve been making unnecessary remarks throughout the thread and id thought I’d mention it. They don’t suddenly take jobs however it wouldn’t be easy to say that we should give trans people who want to enter these jobs competition which would be unfair. If anyone wants to carry on the discussion about gender specific jobs and trans people I’d be happy to get my opinion changed with a nice conversation.
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1cloud_
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Post by 1cloud_ on Jun 3, 2020 2:43:52 GMT
(I am bringing up sport and some other gender exclusive jobs) Generally the argument of competitive sport is just brought up as a "haha, gotcha now we shouldnt give trans people rights" filibuster to waste time. My personal view on sport is very mixed, and I really do not have the mental capacity to come up with an opinion on it. The solution to low-level playing is to divide teams into weight/strength groups, making a fairer play, but this becomes increasingly difficult as you get more competitive. In the case of trans women, if they have had their testicles removed to take away the source of estrogen then I don't see a problem with them playing in a competitive womens sport team.
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:44:41 GMT
Supporting a movement doesn’t mean he doesn’t want those people to have human rights. Zaid is being Zaid however I don’t think I saw him dehumanising LGBT people and saying they don’t have rights (quote if wrong) Refusing to call someone something isn’t removing their rights as a person. It doesn't 'remove' their rights as a person, it's just a matter of being an asshole and if it's intentional then it's an act of transphobia which steps on their 2nd human right, which grants people the freedom from discrimination which so many people ignore. By saying that people should be forced to call them their specified pronoun, you are also taking away their freedom to speech.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 3, 2020 2:46:21 GMT
It doesn't 'remove' their rights as a person, it's just a matter of being an asshole and if it's intentional then it's an act of transphobia which steps on their 2nd human right, which grants people the freedom from discrimination which so many people ignore. By saying that people should be forced to call them their specified pronoun, you are also taking away their freedom to speech. So businesses should be allowed to put whatever gender or sex they want for their employees?
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:47:00 GMT
(I am bringing up sport and some other gender exclusive jobs) Generally the argument of competitive sport is just brought up as a "haha, gotcha now we shouldnt give trans people rights" filibuster to waste time. My personal view on sport is very mixed, and I really do not have the mental capacity to come up with an opinion on it. The solution to low-level playing is to divide teams into weight/strength groups, making a fairer play, but this becomes increasingly difficult as you get more competitive. In the case of trans women, if they have had their testicles removed to take away the source of estrogen then I don't see a problem with them playing in a competitive womens sport team. I’m not bringing it in as a gotcha, it’s a valid conversation starter that can bring things to the table. I suppose the weight categories would make the difference less measurable however the biological differences I don’t assume would help in the playing field.
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:47:54 GMT
By saying that people should be forced to call them their specified pronoun, you are also taking away their freedom to speech. So businesses should be allowed to put whatever gender or sex they want for their employees? Legal gender =/= what someone wants to call you
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Michelle
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Post by Michelle on Jun 3, 2020 2:49:07 GMT
How am I being uncivil? At this point, you’re acting like an ass towards me. Trans people do not even take up these spots. I’m talking work wise, they don’t suddenly take up the spots of women or men? With the sports that’s a whole other issue that I’m not educated enough on to even talk about it I’m not being an ass to you, you’ve been making unnecessary remarks throughout the thread and id thought I’d mention it. They don’t suddenly take jobs however it wouldn’t be easy to say that we should give trans people who want to enter these jobs competition which would be unfair. If anyone wants to carry on the discussion about gender specific jobs and trans people I’d be happy to get my opinion changed with a nice conversation. Can you give an example of the “jobs” point you’re trying to make. I don’t think I’m understanding you correctly. All the remarks on this thread are not unnecessary
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 3, 2020 2:52:29 GMT
So businesses should be allowed to put whatever gender or sex they want for their employees? Legal sex =/= what someone wants to call you Somebody simply calling somebody something is obviously legal, but that isn't in the scope of the conversation, it's more about civil rights and where that is really affected is when people are treated differently by employers or other systems, or are prohibited from doing things.
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:53:38 GMT
I’m not being an ass to you, you’ve been making unnecessary remarks throughout the thread and id thought I’d mention it. They don’t suddenly take jobs however it wouldn’t be easy to say that we should give trans people who want to enter these jobs competition which would be unfair. If anyone wants to carry on the discussion about gender specific jobs and trans people I’d be happy to get my opinion changed with a nice conversation. Can you give an example of the “jobs” point you’re trying to make. I don’t think I’m understanding you correctly. All the remarks on this thread are not unnecessary Jobs would include: - sport - jobs such as secondary school teaching or same-sex nurses may discomfort the patient also saying “you’re weird man” “shut yo ugly ass up” isn’t necessary
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 2:54:36 GMT
Legal sex =/= what someone wants to call you Somebody simply calling somebody something is obviously legal, but that isn't in the scope of the conversation, it's more about civil rights and where that is really affected is when people are treated differently by employers or other systems, or are prohibited from doing things. I agree however the op brought up fleek so I responded.
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Michelle
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Post by Michelle on Jun 3, 2020 3:04:19 GMT
Can you give an example of the “jobs” point you’re trying to make. I don’t think I’m understanding you correctly. All the remarks on this thread are not unnecessary Jobs would include: - sport - jobs such as secondary school teaching or same-sex nurses may discomfort the patient also saying “you’re weird man” “shut yo ugly ass up” isn’t necessary First off jobs should be earned if you're qualified for it. So if a trans person were to apply and they got the job, it's not harming anyone because they were the most qualified. No one is giving trans people special treatment so no, it not "harmful for the opposite gender to give trans people these rights". That's why it's up to the people to actually not be uncomfortable with trans people because, in the end, we're all human. I don't understand how someone would even be uncomfortable with trans people because again, they're humans, not some kind of other being. Also I didn't lie with those remarks though. Mibbzz deleted them and so far I've been civil so don't call me uncivil.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 3, 2020 3:11:50 GMT
Somebody simply calling somebody something is obviously legal, but that isn't in the scope of the conversation, it's more about civil rights and where that is really affected is when people are treated differently by employers or other systems, or are prohibited from doing things. I agree however the op brought up fleek so I responded. If a guy refused to not call black people the N word every time he saw them, would your immediate response be to defend him saying that it's free speech?
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 3:13:46 GMT
Jobs would include: - sport - jobs such as secondary school teaching or same-sex nurses may discomfort the patient also saying “you’re weird man” “shut yo ugly ass up” isn’t necessary First off jobs should be earned if you're qualified for it. So if a trans person were to apply and they got the job, it's not harming anyone because they were the most qualified. No one is giving trans people special treatment so no, it not "harmful for the opposite gender to give trans people these rights". That's why it's up to the people to actually not be uncomfortable with trans people because, in the end, we're all human. I don't understand how someone would even be uncomfortable with trans people because again, they're humans, not some kind of other being. Also I didn't lie with those remarks though. Mibbzz deleted them and so far I've been civil so don't call me uncivil. The gender specific jobs I’m talking about wouldn’t matter about effort. Sport, unless they have a magical hormone machine - they are biological males. PE teachers for girls, I’m sure there would be complications with trans people in here. People would be uncomfortable, not because they are human nor because they are trans but because they were not born females. This also leaves out good communication like giving gender advice. Same sex nurses in egg clinics and so on would have the same problem. I’m all for trans rights however in these spots it’s more iffy (I know in the uk they’re keeping their gender specific laws biological). Anyways I need to sleep as it’s 4am
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square
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Post by square on Jun 3, 2020 3:15:35 GMT
I agree however the op brought up fleek so I responded. If a guy refused to not call black people the N word every time he saw them, would your immediate response be to defend him saying that it's free speech? What’s with these straw man arguments?
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 3, 2020 3:18:11 GMT
If a guy refused to not call black people the N word every time he saw them, would your immediate response be to defend him saying that it's free speech? What’s with these straw man arguments? How is it a straw man? You asked, you were told that it's a matter of being an asshole, and then you went on about freedom of speech despite that being totally irrelevant. Normally when a person is an asshole you call them an asshole and move on, not concern troll/obfuscate to defend them by making a moot point.
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