grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Aug 6, 2020 22:35:35 GMT
When it comes to a server people will always aspire to climb up the ladder and administrate. That's part of the social element of multiplayer gaming on small communities. I can't think of a server where players don't want to hold some sort of authoritative position. But do you really think we should be advertising our server by claiming that we want staff?We don't need staff. It's getting to the point where I find it annoying when a old player reinstated or gets accepted. Not because of them but because of how ridiculous high our admin count is. Yes. Having a server which openly considers applicants for the staff position is something which should be advertised. It demonstrates that this is an open community looking for new people to join the ranks. As for "not needing staff," of course we need staff. We don't need too many staff but it doesn't look like we've reached that point. If you ask me, too many administrators operate on one hemisphere and that has nothing to do with the number of staffmembers enrolled.
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XenVoltz
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Post by XenVoltz on Aug 6, 2020 22:40:48 GMT
I would agree with this if we were being flooded with bad admins, but that isn't happening. Having staff applications open could actually be used as an advertising point to draw players to the server. If we get to a point where we are being flooded with admin applications, then I would suggest opening and closing applications when needed. So your idea of a healthy server is.. drawing in players by telling them that they could apply for a staff position? I am not making this suggestion becuase we are being flooded with applications but rather because we have enough staff and don't need more. That is not my idea of a “healthy server.” It is one of many effective tactics that many servers use to pull in players. Our issue is not with the amount of admins we have; it is with the lack of a playerbase. As the saying goes: “Any publicity is good publicity.”
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burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Aug 6, 2020 22:41:28 GMT
The administration process never changed. When I first became staff I never realized how screwed up the system was. I never realized that being staff was not anything special because litteraly everyone at some point becomes staff. I attacked her argument becuase I find it unfair. It's clearly visible that the server is dying out and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. No healthy server should influence almost all players to want staff and that is what totalfreedom does. Temporarily turning off admin applications would help that. I removed the reinstatement part however I think we should up what an former admin has to do to regain their past rank. What makes an administrative position "special" isn't that you're the only person holding said position, it's not merited by exclusivity but by quality. The server's playerbase has dropped but the server in no way is "dying out." It's had a relatively low amount of players both prior to and during your tenure as admin compared to six or so years ago, but only because the game's decreased in popularity since then. Players don't want staff because they're "influenced by the server" but because gaining a high position of authority is coveted on community-based multiplayer servers. Always has been. No matter how high an item or positions quality is, it, if inflated to much, will become unwanted and worthless. Half of the tab list during certain times is all admins. That can make the admin role more of a group or clique than just a staff team. It excludes those whom are not staff and in some cases completely disregards them and what they think. There is a "supers have no rights" and "ops have no rights" joke going around. And while yes, it is a joke, it perfectly illustrates what I am trying to say. People no longer view admins as being ranked players but rather ops as being rankless.
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Aug 6, 2020 22:43:42 GMT
What makes an administrative position "special" isn't that you're the only person holding said position, it's not merited by exclusivity but by quality. The server's playerbase has dropped but the server in no way is "dying out." It's had a relatively low amount of players both prior to and during your tenure as admin compared to six or so years ago, but only because the game's decreased in popularity since then. Players don't want staff because they're "influenced by the server" but because gaining a high position of authority is coveted on community-based multiplayer servers. Always has been. There is a "supers have no rights" and "ops have no rights" joke going around. And while yes, it is a joke, it perfectly illustrates what I am trying to say. People no longer view admins as being ranked players but rather ops as being rankless. >Yes, this is a joke but it perfectly illustrates that they are not joking. What?
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 6, 2020 22:45:40 GMT
We're not advertising staff applications. Would closing applications for certain timezones be more reasonable?
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Dr. PeePee
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i sent my peepee pls peespond
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Post by Dr. PeePee on Aug 6, 2020 22:51:23 GMT
Object, closing applications won't really affect the admin to op ratio, so doing so would be peediculous.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 6, 2020 23:03:22 GMT
Vouch. It would be nice if the admin officer listened to the community about this instead of saying it won't fix the problem. We've got enough admins. There shouldn't be a reason to keep admin applications open if we've already got enough admins. Listened to the community when there has yet to be given any actual argument as to why having many Admins is a problem. Just saying "The Admin:OP ratio is bad" is not an argument. Focus on getting more players to fix this (non-)issue, not by decreasing the Admin base. What in your mind is "enough Admins"? (of course if the community consensus is to follow this suggestion, then of course that should be followed, but I still have yet to see any actual arguments supporting this case) There has not been a successful admin application since Bowie - June 18th. The one before that was Lyicx - June 2nd. The one before that was TheRickPower - May 7th. The one before that was Lv_ (no longer even an admin) - April 7th. You're telling me 4 Super admin applications approved with 3 actual admins still being admin is too much in 5 months? Are any of these people not qualified to be admin? Closing admin applications does nothing. I don't know how many times I can explain this. What does this solve besides making our numbers look pretty? "This does nothing but make our numbers look pretty". Yes, you have said that and you seem to continue to say that, but answer me this: how is that a bad thing? How is making our numbers more pretty than a 1:1 op to admin ratio a bad thing. It makes the server more inviting to new players. It would make the admins less of a clique and more of a team whom does no more than administrate on the server alongside the ops. If it ain't broke, don't fix it - we could also ask you, why is it a bad thing to have many Admins? I would argue that the more responsible Admins we have the merrier, as this means there is always someone avaliable to assist a player in need. Again, as I have said numerous times before: the issue is not too many Admins, the issues are the perks associated with the title. A private world is not nessecary, expanded WE use is not nessecary. Perks such as these make it so that a player might not only wish to become Admin to assist the community, but also because there are these shiny rewards given when you gain the title. Remove the perks and you will automatically see a decrease in the Admin base. Activity requirements and other similar nonsense don't actually help with the root "problem", they only help to give the illussion of putting a band aid on an open wound - the issue is so easy to fix, yet for some reason we stopped discussing this fundamental solution. I used to feel pride when being an admin here, but if I am being honest, it's not really anything special anymore. And why is that? It is because Every. Single. Popular player on this server eventually becomes one. It doesn't even mean anything anymore and it should not be like that. So you only felt pride because it was a rare title (apparently), not because you felt pride in the fact that you contributed to the server in a meaningful manner? Good to know where your priorities lie. Every time I address this problem you always put it off claiming, "we need to focus on the ops, not the admins" and "this is not a real problem it just makes our numbers look bad". Well it's more than than. To you it may just be numbers but to me, it's a sign of this servers downfall. No healthy server should be putting players in a position were they feel left out just because they don't have a rank. And that is what is happening here. But no matter how I or litteraly anybody phrases it, you just don't listen. Because the issue clearly is that we still are having this nonsensical wall between OPs and Admins. People have been screaming about this server's downfall since 2010, perhaps you should take a look at the history of the server. Your first point about how only three people have been ACCEPTED in the past few months completely disregards the countless number of admins whom have reinstated. You have made this situation sound much less worse than it is. You have yet to actually argue as to why "too many admins" is an actual issue besides it being a purely cosmetic issue. When it comes to a server people will always aspire to climb up the ladder and administrate. That's part of the social element of multiplayer gaming on small communities. I can't think of a server where players don't want to hold some sort of authoritative position. But do you really think we should be advertising our server by claiming that we want staff? We don't need staff. It's getting to the point where I find it annoying when a old player reinstated or gets accepted. Not because of them but because of how ridiculous high our admin count is. Where have we actively advertised our server by saying we "want staff"? Can you link me a source or a quote, because I have yet to see it.
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fleshy_
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goodbye proboards
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Post by fleshy_ on Aug 6, 2020 23:06:42 GMT
There has not been a successful admin application since Bowie - June 18th. The one before that was Lyicx - June 2nd. The one before that was TheRickPower - May 7th. The one before that was Lv_ (no longer even an admin) - April 7th. I also had mine approved around the same time so it's actually more like 5 admin application approved with 4 still being admin You also haven't counted reinstatements, which is probably the main reason for the poor op-admin ratio
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 6, 2020 23:18:30 GMT
But do you really think we should be advertising our server by claiming that we want staff?We don't need staff. It's getting to the point where I find it annoying when a old player reinstated or gets accepted. Not because of them but because of how ridiculous high our admin count is. Yes. Having a server which openly considers applicants for the staff position is something which should be advertised. It demonstrates that this is an open community looking for new people to join the ranks. As for "not needing staff," of course we need staff. We don't need too many staff but it doesn't look like we've reached that point. If you ask me, too many administrators operate on one hemisphere and that has nothing to do with the number of staffmembers enrolled. No. We are not advertising "staff positions" as part of the appeal to join.
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Aug 6, 2020 23:32:10 GMT
Yes. Having a server which openly considers applicants for the staff position is something which should be advertised. It demonstrates that this is an open community looking for new people to join the ranks. As for "not needing staff," of course we need staff. We don't need too many staff but it doesn't look like we've reached that point. If you ask me, too many administrators operate on one hemisphere and that has nothing to do with the number of staffmembers enrolled. No. We are not advertising "staff positions" as part of the appeal to join. Except that's not what was said.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 6, 2020 23:41:23 GMT
No. We are not advertising "staff positions" as part of the appeal to join. Except that's not what was said. But do you really think we should be advertising our server by claiming that we want staff?We don't need staff. It's getting to the point where I find it annoying when a old player reinstated or gets accepted. Not because of them but because of how ridiculous high our admin count is. Yes. Having a server which openly considers applicants for the staff position is something which should be advertised. The difference between advertising that we have open staff applications and adverrising that we have staff positions available is basically nothing. And either way we aren't advertising staff applications or anything relating to staff.
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Aug 6, 2020 23:53:12 GMT
Except that's not what was said. Yes. Having a server which openly considers applicants for the staff position is something which should be advertised. The difference between advertising that we have open staff applications and adverrising that we have staff positions available is basically nothing. And either way we aren't advertising staff applications or anything relating to staff. "Openly" does not mean what you think it means. There's a clear distinction between advertising that something is done openly (in an unconcealed, non-deceiving process) and that it is open (in that people can enter that process). This is a suggestion thread, so what somebody suggests on here is not predicated on the basis that whatever they are proposing is already implemented, otherwise there's nothing to suggest.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Aug 7, 2020 9:15:46 GMT
"This does nothing but make our numbers look pretty". Yes, you have said that and you seem to continue to say that, but answer me this: how is that a bad thing? How is making our numbers more pretty than a 1:1 op to admin ratio a bad thing. It makes the server more inviting to new players. It would make the admins less of a clique and more of a team whom does no more than administrate on the server alongside the ops. I used to feel pride when being an admin here, but if I am being honest, it's not really anything special anymore. And why is that? It is because Every. Single. Popular player on this server eventually becomes one. It doesn't even mean anything anymore and it should not be like that. Every time I address this problem you always put it off claiming, "we need to focus on the ops, not the admins" and "this is not a real problem it just makes our numbers look bad". Well it's more than than. To you it may just be numbers but to me, it's a sign of this servers downfall. No healthy server should be putting players in a position were they feel left out just because they don't have a rank. And that is what is happening here. But no matter how I or litteraly anybody phrases it, you just don't listen. Your first point about how only three people have been ACCEPTED in the past few months completely disregards the countless number of admins whom have reinstated. You have made this situation sound much less worse than it is. Didn't you only become an administrator on this server last October? You're appealing to some imagination of "how it used to be when you got admin" but I don't buy that the entire administration process has changed in under one year. What exactly are you proposing, because in this post I've seen you attack zeseryu for making perfectly valid points and offer no solution yourself. Do you believe admins shouldn't be allowed to reinstate? If so, that seems like an indefensible and unfair solution to our ex-staff who have worked hard to clean up this community. Actually, I've seen servers as big as Mineplex telling staff that you might not be able to get your position back after returning from inactivity if there is no space on the staff team. This works in the same way as executive positions do for us: if you go inactive while being an executive, you don't get to reclaim that position after returning because someone else is now holding it. Similarly, if you were a staff member on one of those servers, you can't reinstate if the slot you were occupying has been filled by someone else because there is only a fixed amount of slots per rank. The only reason we wouldn't be able to do this is because it subverts expectations.
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Daniels
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Post by Daniels on Aug 7, 2020 9:20:43 GMT
Vouch.
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Post by Captainclimber on Aug 7, 2020 10:44:39 GMT
Object
It wouldn't be very fair to players that have been planning to apply for a while that have been gaining reputation in the meanwhile. Our application system is mainly a merit system and not just an apply and get accepted scenario.
There also doesn't seem to be a problem in my eyes except that we might have too much of a moderation force. Closing applications doesn'the lessen the current amount of admins present. In my opinion, we should increase the difficulty in applying rather than stopping applications all together.
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