Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 23:07:05 GMT
While I don't inherently disagree. A few points. - As you say, this isn't really your place to make such expectations, should this not be in a different board given there is nothing 'Official' about this? - Why hasn't this been raised with either the EAO (or acting) or IA if it's proving to be that big of a problem to make an official statement? - Breaking down that paragraph might be a good idea, because it's just a wall of text... - Feels like you're brushing a shit load of people with the same brush... I'm not sure that tends to go down well when a lot of people are probably doing their best. - Everyone should be entitled to express their opinions. No matter how controversial or heated or dividing they may be. To oppress admins ends up just pushing a larger wedge and widening that divide, I really disagree with the point you make there That's my view on it. Happy to discuss. Admin information isn't just for "official" posts, as per the forums description. Admin announcements would be where the strictly official forum threads would go. This post re-iterating administrative expectations should without a doubt belong in admin information, as it is, information for admins. I am also not stating anything "new" in what I said, I'm simply re-iterating an already official point. Just to clarify what I meant by "sociopolitical" discussion in-game: Sociopolitical conversation on this forum is by all means welcomed. We have an effective system in place making sure deep discussion is more or less clean, factual, and on-topic. The sociopolitical conversation I'm referring to in-game relates to admins doing just the opposite. I don't mean to name names here, but here's a typical example embodying this: OP 1: Gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because our brains are wired differently, Admin 1: Yeah lollll gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because straight people are superior. Gay people make me uncomfortable lmaooo. OP 2: I'm gay and I think this discussion is complete bullshit, I am shocked that an admin agrees with this. Admin 1: You're a snowflake, if you're offended, leave. While I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, this is the "sociopolitical" discussion I was referring too. Personally, restricting admins from partaking in conversations like this doesn't at all restrict their freedom. If anything, having admins partake in this type of speech limits the freedom of marginalized OPs.
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jun 8, 2020 23:09:48 GMT
While I don't inherently disagree. A few points. - As you say, this isn't really your place to make such expectations, should this not be in a different board given there is nothing 'Official' about this? - Why hasn't this been raised with either the EAO (or acting) or IA if it's proving to be that big of a problem to make an official statement? - Breaking down that paragraph might be a good idea, because it's just a wall of text... - Feels like you're brushing a shit load of people with the same brush... I'm not sure that tends to go down well when a lot of people are probably doing their best. - Everyone should be entitled to express their opinions. No matter how controversial or heated or dividing they may be. To oppress admins ends up just pushing a larger wedge and widening that divide, I really disagree with the point you make there That's my view on it. Happy to discuss. Admin information isn't just for "official" posts, as per the forums description. Admin announcements would be where the strictly official forum threads would go. This post re-iterating administrative expectations should without a doubt belong in admin information, as it is, information for admins. I am also not stating anything "new" in what I said, I'm simply re-iterating an already official point. Just to clarify what I meant by "sociopolitical" discussion in-game: Sociopolitical conversation on this forum is by all means welcomed. We have an effective system in place making sure deep discussion is more or less clean, factual, and on-topic. The sociopolitical conversation I'm referring to in-game relates to admins doing just the opposite. I don't mean to name names here, but here's a typical example embodying this: OP 1: Gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because our brains are wired differently, Admin 1: Yeah lollll gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because straight people are superior. Gay people make me uncomfortable lmaooo. OP 2: I'm gay and I think this discussion is complete bullshit, I am shocked that an admin agrees with this. Admin 1: You're a snowflake, if you're offended, leave. While I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, this is the "sociopolitical" discussion I was referring too. Personally, restricting admins from partaking in conversations like this doesn't at all restrict their freedom. If anything, having admins partake in this type of speech limits the freedom of marginalized OPs. I'm curious as I don't remember seeing this in the manner you're referring to. Could you perhaps screenshot some of it and censor names for reference?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 23:16:15 GMT
From what I’ve witnessed in the past four years, I disagree for the most point with what you’ve stated in your post. I think the admins, especially the telnet admins, are mature and know when to be serious when it’s needed. I’ve witnessed a lot of admins coming and going and I can tell you that now that we’ve shaved off parts of the application system, we now have more quality admins than we used to. The admins of the past seemed to be more here fun and power, while the admins now actually have to work to be accepted as an admin and not SPaSed or TPaSed. I also agree with whoever said that as a senior you can also help train the admins you see as unfit. Whenever I see an admin, even seniors, I don’t make a point to say they’re bad admins, I PM them on discord or try to help fix whatever they’re doing wrong. Like I said originally, I do not see serious misuse or abuse on really any level at the rate you’re making it seem like in your post. I’m not trying to be a dick, but since you’re critiquing I might as well give my two sense. I appreciate your input! You're not a "dick" lol. I truly wish that all admins would follow the example you've set. But to respond to your point, there are definitely some serious conduct and abuse issues present in our staff team. Perhaps you don't outright see them because of timezones, activity or what have you, but they 100% exist. To speak on the most common misuse I've seen, would be logging on on multiple occasions and having seen super admins being caged, smited and then banned for reasons like "suck my dick griefer". Once in a while, I understand it's fun and all, and I truly have no objection to it, but for the same group of admins to do it repeatedly, every time I had logged on is appalling. For those of you asking what I meant by smiting, kicking and banning "once in a while"- you're admins, you're in your position because you've got good judgement, reasoning and skill. Use that good judgement to determine where and when you should "joke ban". If you have been doing nothing but banning, kicking and smiting admins for the last week non-stop, perhaps now is a good time to stop. Also, "joke-banning" in general treats our banning and rules system like, well, a "joke". What example do you set to rulebreaking OPs by banning and trolling your fellow peers? Are you above the law? I surely don't think so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 23:19:33 GMT
Admin information isn't just for "official" posts, as per the forums description. Admin announcements would be where the strictly official forum threads would go. This post re-iterating administrative expectations should without a doubt belong in admin information, as it is, information for admins. I am also not stating anything "new" in what I said, I'm simply re-iterating an already official point. Just to clarify what I meant by "sociopolitical" discussion in-game: Sociopolitical conversation on this forum is by all means welcomed. We have an effective system in place making sure deep discussion is more or less clean, factual, and on-topic. The sociopolitical conversation I'm referring to in-game relates to admins doing just the opposite. I don't mean to name names here, but here's a typical example embodying this: OP 1: Gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because our brains are wired differently, Admin 1: Yeah lollll gay people shouldn't be allowed to use the same restrooms as straight people because straight people are superior. Gay people make me uncomfortable lmaooo. OP 2: I'm gay and I think this discussion is complete bullshit, I am shocked that an admin agrees with this. Admin 1: You're a snowflake, if you're offended, leave. While I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, this is the "sociopolitical" discussion I was referring too. Personally, restricting admins from partaking in conversations like this doesn't at all restrict their freedom. If anything, having admins partake in this type of speech limits the freedom of marginalized OPs. I'm curious as I don't remember seeing this in the manner you're referring to. Could you perhaps screenshot some of it and censor names for reference? I took no screenshots of this incident as it was "technically" not against the rules. It happened last Sunday during the twilight hours. I'll look through logs and see if I find it. I'll promise you this, though, the next time something of this manor occurs, and mind you, this type of behavior happens a lot, I'll be reporting it w/ screenshots to IA and the EAO. I encourage everyone to do the same ^
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Post by ???DaddyIndica on Jun 8, 2020 23:36:08 GMT
I'm curious as I don't remember seeing this in the manner you're referring to. Could you perhaps screenshot some of it and censor names for reference? I took no screenshots of this incident as it was "technically" not against the rules. It happened last Sunday during the twilight hours. I'll look through logs and see if I find it. I'll promise you this, though, the next time something of this manor occurs, and mind you, this type of behavior happens a lot, I'll be reporting it w/ screenshots to IA and the EAO. I encourage everyone to do the same ^ I don’t know dude, I’m pretty sure most admins would agree that the majority of us are not saying this. I think that what you say you’ve witnessed is a serious thing, and even if it’s not against the rules the admins still need to have their discipline at a certain level and clearly we have an admin who just isn’t competent. You and I as senior admins should be the ones who correct simple conduct mistakes but things that involve blatant bigotry (which an admin got suspended for so it is technically against the rules) should result in a more serious way.
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Post by zevante on Jun 8, 2020 23:39:27 GMT
In response to Wild about IA;
We as IA don't really want to blow anything out of proportion by making a huge forum thread with the sole purpose to condemn the admins that tarnish TF's public view. Rather, we prefer to collect our efforts into looking at the various admins in question that we think are drastically lowering the quality of our staff roster. I feel like issuing a public statement to enforce admins to stop behaving like children is both absurd and unnecessary.
I can tell you for sure that we're aware of multiple common offenders that have been misusing their responsibility as an admin, and are waiting for deeper examination before action should even be considered. Our goal here isn't to police people; only to evaluate and pursue action when absolutely necessary.
That being said, my opinion on "admin expectations" is to just not act like a bigot lol. Freedom of speech is cool yadda yadda having fun with commands is fun just don't be a fucking chode and cry tyrant when you get caught with your pants down.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 9, 2020 0:10:02 GMT
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 9, 2020 0:17:50 GMT
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Jun 9, 2020 1:07:07 GMT
I want to remind users that this is not an offical IA or AEO thread, i myself have done some actual research into this, like deep deep stuff, some of you may know about it, and have found some interesting things, thse things have already been reported to IA, but i know that both they and I dont quite have enough to make the full thread that properly discusses this. i say this because, it seems that wize here is saying that super admins are doing great, telnets need to get their shit together, and seniors need to give a stern talking to to everyone else, this is not the case, each person on the staff team is different about this, and thus each will be delt with case by case, i have logs of litterly almost every admin breaking these "expectations" and have gone all out, if you have done something, you are in there somewhere, this even includes my self, and some of the highest/most trusted admins. I am not trying to get all of the staff team punished but rather show that the situation is not so black and white, it is so so so much deaper than what has been described here and i think that shows that this thread was made pre-maturely
i would also like to mention that this is vastly summerizing what i could/should be saying here, but if i where to say that, i might as well make another thread, so keep your eyes pealed
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sergio24m
Full Member
mods united.
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Post by sergio24m on Jun 9, 2020 1:14:03 GMT
Well.. i want the "Supers have no rights" joke to stop. Thank you very much, i appreciate it.
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burger
Registered
fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Jun 9, 2020 1:27:37 GMT
Well.. i want the "Supers have no rights" joke to stop. Thank you very much, i appreciate it. supers have no rights
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97
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RIP Telnet
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Post by 97 on Jun 9, 2020 1:35:45 GMT
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nick
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Post by nick on Jun 9, 2020 1:43:30 GMT
Well.. i want the "Supers have no rights" joke to stop. Thank you very much, i appreciate it. supers have no rights You're part of the problem.
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XenVoltz
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Post by XenVoltz on Jun 9, 2020 3:05:08 GMT
I agree with what you said for the most part, but calling out telnets like that seems to be a little unfair. The lack of “mutual respect” or “understanding” can be attributed to people ranging from super admins all the way up to the executives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 3:07:17 GMT
I agree with what you said for the most part, but calling out telnets like that seems to be a little unfair. The lack of “mutual respect” or “understanding” can be attributed to people ranging from the rank super admin all the way up to the executives. Agreed, although I made sure to phrase it as the telnets who partook in those activities lacked mutual respect and understanding for their position... Not all telnets.
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