Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 23:32:54 GMT
I got one thing right - I hate alt-right.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 20, 2017 23:35:49 GMT
I don't give a shit what the card said. Freedom of speech is a right, everyone should be able to express unpopular opinions and beliefs as long as it does not threaten violence to anyone or disrupts peace. This wasn't even expressing an opinion, this was literally just a business card. Fucking pathetic how we've went so low, then again who am I kidding, it's always been like this.
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Lucas
Veteran Member
fucking gross
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Post by Lucas on Mar 21, 2017 1:00:43 GMT
if America is 60% white where the fuck my homies at??? there are 8 white people at my school (excluding teachers and myself) and only 3 of them aren't whites pretending to be Latina or Black
anyways, on the topic of the thread...
Nobody's going to die over a small laminated card. I bet most people would just toss the card over their shoulder and forget about it. That's not worthy of expulsion. I honestly agree with Fake News.
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Atir25
Veteran Member
And so you have come, bearing your sin like a badge of honor. What do you seek, Pale Rider?
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 21, 2017 1:08:15 GMT
I don't give a shit what the card said. Freedom of speech is a right, everyone should be able to express unpopular opinions and beliefs as long as it does not threaten violence to anyone or disrupts peace. This wasn't even expressing an opinion, this was literally just a business card. Fucking pathetic how we've went so low, then again who am I kidding, it's always been like this. A business card which promotes some sort of racial discrimination and maybe even violence. What do you think the card means? The way I see it, it's practically promoting some sort of radical action against non-whites, implying that we need to remove these other non-whites. This is my view on the business card, feel free to repudiate. Also Cowgomooo12 I couldn't find where they stated expulsion was the punishment, or if it was just an assumed undertone? |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 21, 2017 1:12:59 GMT
I don't give a shit what the card said. Freedom of speech is a right, everyone should be able to express unpopular opinions and beliefs as long as it does not threaten violence to anyone or disrupts peace. This wasn't even expressing an opinion, this was literally just a business card. Fucking pathetic how we've went so low, then again who am I kidding, it's always been like this. A business card which promotes some sort of racial discrimination and maybe even violence. What do you think the card means? The way I see it, it's practically promoting some sort of radical action against non-whites, implying that we need to remove these other non-whites. This is my view on the business card, feel free to repudiate. Also @cowgomoo12 I couldn't find where they stated expulsion was the punishment, or if it was just an assumed undertone? The card promotes racial discrimination, right, but they have every right to have a card that promotes racial discrimination, otherwise that's not freedom of speech. Doesn't promote violence at all so I have no idea where you pulled that from. I think it means the same thing, but doesn't imply violence. But even if you went to a college and shared your message about gassing every black person in America, it doesn't matter, they have freedom of speech no matter how much of an asshole. Why is this even a conversation, everyone should be for freedom of speech and I'd be surprised if you're not. |
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Atir25
Veteran Member
And so you have come, bearing your sin like a badge of honor. What do you seek, Pale Rider?
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 21, 2017 1:28:19 GMT
A business card which promotes some sort of racial discrimination and maybe even violence. What do you think the card means? The way I see it, it's practically promoting some sort of radical action against non-whites, implying that we need to remove these other non-whites. This is my view on the business card, feel free to repudiate. Also @cowgomoo12 I couldn't find where they stated expulsion was the punishment, or if it was just an assumed undertone? The card promotes racial discrimination, right, but they have every right to have a card that promotes racial discrimination, otherwise that's not freedom of speech. Doesn't promote violence at all so I have no idea where you pulled that from. I think it means the same thing, but doesn't imply violence. But even if you went to a college and shared your message about gassing every black person in America, it doesn't matter, they have freedom of speech no matter how much of an asshole. Why is this even a conversation, everyone should be for freedom of speech and I'd be surprised if you're not. I'm not for absolute freedom of speech, the effects would be adversely negative, but I am for a degree of freedom of speech, certainly more than countries I can think of. Also your example is a direct example of why freedom of speech needs limits, you're inciting violence and trying to motivate people to literally kill blacks on the account of their skin color. As a final question, if you don't agree with my interpretation of the business card, what do you think is the underlying message, if there is one at all? |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 21, 2017 2:11:37 GMT
The card promotes racial discrimination, right, but they have every right to have a card that promotes racial discrimination, otherwise that's not freedom of speech. Doesn't promote violence at all so I have no idea where you pulled that from. I think it means the same thing, but doesn't imply violence. But even if you went to a college and shared your message about gassing every black person in America, it doesn't matter, they have freedom of speech no matter how much of an asshole. Why is this even a conversation, everyone should be for freedom of speech and I'd be surprised if you're not. I'm not for absolute freedom of speech, the effects would be adversely negative, but I am for a degree of freedom of speech, certainly more than countries I can think of. Also your example is a direct example of why freedom of speech needs limits, you're inciting violence and trying to motivate people to literally kill blacks on the account of their skin color. As a final question, if you don't agree with my interpretation of the business card, what do you think is the underlying message, if there is one at all? No such thing as "absolute freedom of speech" it's either you have freedom of speech or you don't. You should be able to talk against anything and anyone as long as it isn't directly causing harm or danger to the public, and that's how America was founded and imo it's how every country should be. This business card isn't causing riots in the street or the public to be negatively affected, so what the fuck is the problem? It is a business card, who gives a fuck what is on it. If the business card said "come to the ally at 4 am for instructions on how to kill the president", then there's a problem. But no, it's not even remotely close to something like that, so who gives a crap. Why the fuck is this a discussion. |
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?? MrPerson660 ??
Veteran Member
Do curls to get the girls
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Post by ?? MrPerson660 ?? on Mar 21, 2017 2:12:54 GMT
Despite the fact that some can see it as being racist, it is perfectly fine and the producer's freedom of speech must be protected.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 21, 2017 2:20:14 GMT
Despite the fact that some can see it as being racist, it is perfectly fine and the producer's freedom of speech must be protected. Might wanna reword that a bit though lmao "perfectly fine" |
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Atir25
Veteran Member
And so you have come, bearing your sin like a badge of honor. What do you seek, Pale Rider?
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 21, 2017 2:20:39 GMT
I'm not for absolute freedom of speech, the effects would be adversely negative, but I am for a degree of freedom of speech, certainly more than countries I can think of. Also your example is a direct example of why freedom of speech needs limits, you're inciting violence and trying to motivate people to literally kill blacks on the account of their skin color. As a final question, if you don't agree with my interpretation of the business card, what do you think is the underlying message, if there is one at all? No such thing as "absolute freedom of speech" it's either you have freedom of speech or you don't. You should be able to talk against anything and anyone as long as it isn't directly causing harm or danger to the public, and that's how America was founded and imo it's how every country should be. This business card isn't causing riots in the street or the public to be negatively affected, so what the fuck is the problem? It is a business card, who gives a fuck what is on it. If the business card said "come to the ally at 4 am for instructions on how to kill the president", then there's a problem. But no, it's not even remotely close to something like that, so who gives a crap. Why the fuck is this a discussion. Your first two sentences contradict themselves, you say there is no "absolute freedom of speech" and that it's black or white, then proceed to say that it should be limited. As for the latter part, of course this is a single business card, an isolated incident, and whilst I personally agree that this incident in itself poses no threat, imagine if it had been on a greater scale or if it was distributed. I personally believed it was suggesting some sort of radical action, and assuming I'm not an entire idiot, especially considering I don't have the most extremist-oriented mind, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who is innately racist was motivated to kill someone. The biggest part is that you would never know, and these look like the professional kind that are mass produced, so I'd say it's safe to assume that there are a shit load of these with unforeseen effects. |
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duck
Veteran Member
on and off
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Post by duck on Mar 21, 2017 2:20:47 GMT
Even though it's racist and not right, it's freedom of speech.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 21, 2017 2:23:27 GMT
No such thing as "absolute freedom of speech" it's either you have freedom of speech or you don't. You should be able to talk against anything and anyone as long as it isn't directly causing harm or danger to the public, and that's how America was founded and imo it's how every country should be. This business card isn't causing riots in the street or the public to be negatively affected, so what the fuck is the problem? It is a business card, who gives a fuck what is on it. If the business card said "come to the ally at 4 am for instructions on how to kill the president", then there's a problem. But no, it's not even remotely close to something like that, so who gives a crap. Why the fuck is this a discussion. Your first two sentences contradict themselves, you say there is no "absolute freedom of speech" and that it's black or white, then proceed to say that it should be limited. As for the latter part, of course this is a single business card, an isolated incident, and whilst I personally agree that this incident in itself poses no threat, imagine if it had been on a greater scale or if it was distributed. I personally believed it was suggesting some sort of radical action, and assuming I'm not an entire idiot, especially considering I don't have the most extremist-oriented mind, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who is innately racist was motivated to kill someone. The biggest part is that you would never know, and these look like the professional kind that are mass produced, so I'd say it's safe to assume that there are a shit load of these with unforeseen effects. Well that's just speculation, unless we knew this was some radical kill movement by default this is protected under freedom of speech. |
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Atir25
Veteran Member
And so you have come, bearing your sin like a badge of honor. What do you seek, Pale Rider?
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 21, 2017 3:04:53 GMT
Your first two sentences contradict themselves, you say there is no "absolute freedom of speech" and that it's black or white, then proceed to say that it should be limited. As for the latter part, of course this is a single business card, an isolated incident, and whilst I personally agree that this incident in itself poses no threat, imagine if it had been on a greater scale or if it was distributed. I personally believed it was suggesting some sort of radical action, and assuming I'm not an entire idiot, especially considering I don't have the most extremist-oriented mind, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who is innately racist was motivated to kill someone. The biggest part is that you would never know, and these look like the professional kind that are mass produced, so I'd say it's safe to assume that there are a shit load of these with unforeseen effects. Well that's just speculation, unless we knew this was some radical kill movement by default this is protected under freedom of speech. My argument still holds. I'll give you that, but I guess the police interpreted it a separate way and perceived it as a hate crime/incititation |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 21, 2017 3:06:09 GMT
My argument still holds. I'll give you that, but I guess the police interpreted it a separate way and perceived it as a hate crime/incititation No it doesn't, because freedom of speech is based off of the harm principle. Then the police are violating the 1st amendment (something that happens all the time so not a surprise) |
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Atir25
Veteran Member
And so you have come, bearing your sin like a badge of honor. What do you seek, Pale Rider?
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 21, 2017 3:53:59 GMT
My argument still holds. I'll give you that, but I guess the police interpreted it a separate way and perceived it as a hate crime/incititation No it doesn't, because freedom of speech is based off of the harm principle. Then the police are violating the 1st amendment (something that happens all the time so not a surprise) "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." I don't see a base for a harm principle besides the right of peaceful assembly, but that's not the same as freedom of speech/expression. Only if you interpret the first amendment entirely literally, and not exercise any reason whatsoever. This harm principle you talked about is applied to the modern day version of the freedom of expression and speech, and if the police feel justified, then they can take the action that will justify the "offense". |
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