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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 2:02:37 GMT
It means that he's a trump supporter... ok heres what I think >shows the change in white population >Implies that America is bad going to assume here that america is bad because of the change in white population >therefore, we should change the population back to the more white-dominant way >how do we do that? hmmm killing them, deporting them + other radical moves You should never speculate the worst possible thing, especially in law (and in law you shouldn't speculate at all). Can you explain to me how if I have a business card that says that black people should be killed then I should be arrested? I don't think you're understanding what freedom of speech is. |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Mar 22, 2017 2:18:28 GMT
calls for radical action against non-whites i previously explained in a prior post. It doesn't say "we should holocaust all the non-whites" it says "america should be 90% white like it used to be" It implies racism, but doesn't imply genocide or radical action or violence. I have no idea how you're getting this stuff. Anyone with a brain that isn't purposefully ignoring the meaning of it, knows what it means. You think that 30% of American citizens are just going to disappear on their own? And if this was the case why does Trump need to be the first step? |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Mar 22, 2017 2:21:56 GMT
ok heres what I think >shows the change in white population >Implies that America is bad going to assume here that america is bad because of the change in white population >therefore, we should change the population back to the more white-dominant way >how do we do that? hmmm killing them, deporting them + other radical moves You should never speculate the worst possible thing, especially in law (and in law you shouldn't speculate at all). Can you explain to me how if I have a business card that says that black people should be killed then I should be arrested? I don't think you're understanding what freedom of speech is. I can guarantee if you made a business card that advocated for any violence, let alone against a targeted ethnic group, you could and would be arrested for it. Your "Freedom of Speech" does not extend to advocating for murder, and that's why the original card didn't say that, and instead said so in language that could have plausible deniability; but language that everyone knows the meaning of. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 2:44:07 GMT
You should never speculate the worst possible thing, especially in law (and in law you shouldn't speculate at all). Can you explain to me how if I have a business card that says that black people should be killed then I should be arrested? I don't think you're understanding what freedom of speech is. I can guarantee if you made a business card that advocated for any violence, let alone against a targeted ethnic group, you could and would be arrested for it. Your "Freedom of Speech" does not extend to advocating for murder, and that's why the original card didn't say that, and instead said so in language that could have plausible deniability; but language that everyone knows the meaning of. Advocating for violence shouldn't be illegal because the harm principle doesn't apply to it. It should only be illegal if it is disrupting the peace of the public, causing physical violence, dangering the public, or actually demanding people to go out and hurt other people. This doesn't apply to any of those even if the business card said "kill the blacks", because it's not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks, although the person should be kept on watch by police if that was the business card. But really it's dumb to assume that he's referring to killing people who aren't white, it could easily mean deporting hispanic people, changing immigration policies, etc. This is all speculation and discussions about speculation never go anywhere, I don't understand why things are so black and white to you where it definitively means death to people of color. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 2:45:07 GMT
It doesn't say "we should holocaust all the non-whites" it says "america should be 90% white like it used to be" It implies racism, but doesn't imply genocide or radical action or violence. I have no idea how you're getting this stuff. Anyone with a brain that isn't purposefully ignoring the meaning of it, knows what it means. You think that 30% of American citizens are just going to disappear on their own? And if this was the case why does Trump need to be the first step? Is genocide the only thing in your brain you can come up with that the card could imply? |
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Atir25
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 22, 2017 3:40:03 GMT
I can guarantee if you made a business card that advocated for any violence, let alone against a targeted ethnic group, you could and would be arrested for it. Your "Freedom of Speech" does not extend to advocating for murder, and that's why the original card didn't say that, and instead said so in language that could have plausible deniability; but language that everyone knows the meaning of. Advocating for violence shouldn't be illegal because the harm principle doesn't apply to it. It should only be illegal if it is disrupting the peace of the public, causing physical violence, dangering the public, or actually demanding people to go out and hurt other people. This doesn't apply to any of those even if the business card said "kill the blacks", because it's not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks, although the person should be kept on watch by police if that was the business card. But really it's dumb to assume that he's referring to killing people who aren't white, it could easily mean deporting hispanic people, changing immigration policies, etc. This is all speculation and discussions about speculation never go anywhere, I don't understand why things are so black and white to you where it definitively means death to people of color. How is "kill the blacks" not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks? |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 3:42:10 GMT
Advocating for violence shouldn't be illegal because the harm principle doesn't apply to it. It should only be illegal if it is disrupting the peace of the public, causing physical violence, dangering the public, or actually demanding people to go out and hurt other people. This doesn't apply to any of those even if the business card said "kill the blacks", because it's not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks, although the person should be kept on watch by police if that was the business card. But really it's dumb to assume that he's referring to killing people who aren't white, it could easily mean deporting hispanic people, changing immigration policies, etc. This is all speculation and discussions about speculation never go anywhere, I don't understand why things are so black and white to you where it definitively means death to people of color. How is "kill the blacks" not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks? I'd say demanding individual people to go kill blacks would mean actually telling people to go kill blacks, I don't think just putting "kill the blacks" on a business card is doing that. |
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Atir25
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 22, 2017 3:59:41 GMT
How is "kill the blacks" not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks? I'd say demanding individual people to go kill blacks would mean actually telling people to go kill blacks, I don't think just putting "kill the blacks" on a business card is doing that. So someone made professional business cards in order not to distribute them? |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 4:05:21 GMT
I'd say demanding individual people to go kill blacks would mean actually telling people to go kill blacks, I don't think just putting "kill the blacks" on a business card is doing that. So someone made professional business cards in order not to distribute them? Well businesses shouldn't be racist but I'm talking about the guy not the business. |
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Atir25
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Post by Atir25 on Mar 22, 2017 4:32:47 GMT
So someone made professional business cards in order not to distribute them? Well businesses shouldn't be racist but I'm talking about the guy not the business. Wouldn't a card telling someone to kill blacks be bad as well? |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Mar 22, 2017 4:36:13 GMT
I can guarantee if you made a business card that advocated for any violence, let alone against a targeted ethnic group, you could and would be arrested for it. Your "Freedom of Speech" does not extend to advocating for murder, and that's why the original card didn't say that, and instead said so in language that could have plausible deniability; but language that everyone knows the meaning of. Advocating for violence shouldn't be illegal because the harm principle doesn't apply to it. It should only be illegal if it is disrupting the peace of the public, causing physical violence, dangering the public, or actually demanding people to go out and hurt other people. This doesn't apply to any of those even if the business card said "kill the blacks", because it's not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks, although the person should be kept on watch by police if that was the business card. But really it's dumb to assume that he's referring to killing people who aren't white, it could easily mean deporting hispanic people, changing immigration policies, etc. This is all speculation and discussions about speculation never go anywhere, I don't understand why things are so black and white to you where it definitively means death to people of color. Giving the fact you're taking the time to create a business card and it be a thought out action, it would be outside the protections of the first amendment giving precedent. We're not talking about vague language here where someone is saying "we have to get take back our place in the world from the jews", we're talking about someone advocating for the death of others. You're also using "the harm principle" like it has any legal basis and isn't just a school of thought within mainly libertarians. For a better view look up "Incitement to Imminent Violence" and what that entails, distributing materials which explicitly tells people to kill others would 98% fall within that. If handing out cards to people that read "kill the blacks" isn't asking of others to go out and commit violence, then what the actual fuck is? I guess IS videos calling for attacks in the West are fine, because they're just asking to kill the kuffar, no big deal there. And did I ever say it had to be referring to death? That's the most likely thing it's saying, but is advocating for the removal of 30% of American citizens from America a good thing to you? You're the one who is taking it to mean black and white, life and death. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 4:40:38 GMT
Well businesses shouldn't be racist but I'm talking about the guy not the business. Wouldn't a card telling someone to kill blacks be bad as well? But it's not, I'm saying if someone was actually demanding people to kill blacks, that would be wrong, but this is just a personal business card. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 4:51:43 GMT
Advocating for violence shouldn't be illegal because the harm principle doesn't apply to it. It should only be illegal if it is disrupting the peace of the public, causing physical violence, dangering the public, or actually demanding people to go out and hurt other people. This doesn't apply to any of those even if the business card said "kill the blacks", because it's not demanding individual people to go and actually kill blacks, although the person should be kept on watch by police if that was the business card. But really it's dumb to assume that he's referring to killing people who aren't white, it could easily mean deporting hispanic people, changing immigration policies, etc. This is all speculation and discussions about speculation never go anywhere, I don't understand why things are so black and white to you where it definitively means death to people of color. Giving the fact you're taking the time to create a business card and it be a thought out action, it would be outside the protections of the first amendment giving precedent. We're not talking about vague language here where someone is saying "we have to get take back our place in the world from the jews", we're talking about someone advocating for the death of others. You're also using "the harm principle" like it has any legal basis and isn't just a school of thought within mainly libertarians. For a better view look up "Incitement to Imminent Violence" and what that entails, distributing materials which explicitly tells people to kill others would 98% fall within that. If handing out cards to people that read "kill the blacks" isn't asking of others to go out and commit violence, then what the actual fuck is? I guess IS videos calling for attacks in the West are fine, because they're just asking to kill the kuffar, no big deal there. And did I ever say it had to be referring to death? That's the most likely thing it's saying, but is advocating for the removal of 30% of American citizens from America a good thing to you? You're the one who is taking it to mean black and white, life and death. A business handing out cards saying kill the blacks is bad, but the person himself holding one is an asshole, but shouldn't legally be in the wrong. I don't think you understand what the harm principle is, it's where you don't get freedom of speech protection if you yell out "FIRE!!!" in a movie theater for no reason. Actually demanding people to kill others (like the example you used) is wrong, but we're talking about a personal business card. Of course the business is in the wrong because businesses shouldn't legally be allowed to be racist. Quote where I said it's a good thing, and it's pure speculation that it's likely. Again, for all we know he could mean deporting hispanics, we have no fucking idea. |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Mar 22, 2017 5:35:13 GMT
Giving the fact you're taking the time to create a business card and it be a thought out action, it would be outside the protections of the first amendment giving precedent. We're not talking about vague language here where someone is saying "we have to get take back our place in the world from the jews", we're talking about someone advocating for the death of others. You're also using "the harm principle" like it has any legal basis and isn't just a school of thought within mainly libertarians. For a better view look up "Incitement to Imminent Violence" and what that entails, distributing materials which explicitly tells people to kill others would 98% fall within that. If handing out cards to people that read "kill the blacks" isn't asking of others to go out and commit violence, then what the actual fuck is? I guess IS videos calling for attacks in the West are fine, because they're just asking to kill the kuffar, no big deal there. And did I ever say it had to be referring to death? That's the most likely thing it's saying, but is advocating for the removal of 30% of American citizens from America a good thing to you? You're the one who is taking it to mean black and white, life and death. A business handing out cards saying kill the blacks is bad, but the person himself holding one is an asshole, but shouldn't legally be in the wrong. I don't think you understand what the harm principle is, it's where you don't get freedom of speech protection if you yell out "FIRE!!!" in a movie theater for no reason. Actually demanding people to kill others (like the example you used) is wrong, but we're talking about a personal business card. Of course the business is in the wrong because businesses shouldn't legally be allowed to be racist. Quote where I said it's a good thing, and it's pure speculation that it's likely. Again, for all we know he could mean deporting hispanics, we have no fucking idea. And you ignore everything I just said to continue on with a principle which has no basis in law. Your ability to do so still surprises me sometimes. |
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 22, 2017 6:00:28 GMT
A business handing out cards saying kill the blacks is bad, but the person himself holding one is an asshole, but shouldn't legally be in the wrong. I don't think you understand what the harm principle is, it's where you don't get freedom of speech protection if you yell out "FIRE!!!" in a movie theater for no reason. Actually demanding people to kill others (like the example you used) is wrong, but we're talking about a personal business card. Of course the business is in the wrong because businesses shouldn't legally be allowed to be racist. Quote where I said it's a good thing, and it's pure speculation that it's likely. Again, for all we know he could mean deporting hispanics, we have no fucking idea. And you ignore everything I just said to continue on with a principle which has no basis in law. Your ability to do so still surprises me sometimes. I haven't been talking about law, I've been talking about how I think it should work based off of the harm principle. Isn't that what this entire thread is about? Discussing what should've happened instead or why what happened was good/bad. |
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