Darth
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Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on Aug 13, 2020 12:37:26 GMT
Let me preface this by saying that this is not a callout thread, nor is it designed to incite drama. I woke up to see the chaos that took place last night, and after spending an hour reading all of it I wanted to give my take, so here it is.
Overall I am content with our executive team. All of us have made some pretty big mistakes but each of my colleagues have contributed positively to the community in major ways. I became an executive less than a month ago, and due to unfortunate timing I have been on vacation for a few weeks, and as such have not been able to fully realize my plans for community engagement. I will be back on the 18th, in just a few days, but I've tried my best to keep active and communicative even though I'm only able to use mobile. Everything I've done and planned has been to get the community to stick together and celebrate what we have in common, so to see these arguments going on is both disheartening and a reality check. They say hindsight is 20/20, and in this case I can see why. Pulling that Cicada 3301 stunt with the new forum was not a good idea. For that, I very much apologize and can assure you I won't do anything like that in the future. I also wanted to address the notion that the entire group chat is a bunch of people agreeing. It is not, at least from my perspective. I have had disagreements with all of the other executives, except for Ron as we for the most part seem to see eye-to-eye. Even my own assistants have helped to keep me in check, and aren't afraid to tell me when they disagree with something I say or do regarding my executive position. That is incredibly valuable to me, and it only gives me another one hundred percent boost in confidence that I picked the right people. I disagree with both Kae and Seth quite a bit. But there isn't any animosity between us, and we're able to look past our disagreements and go play league after a long and stressful day.
As I said, we've all made some pretty major fuck ups in our time, but everything we've done has at least been in good faith, even if the way we did things or the things we did didn't pan out. And I understand that there is a difference between what your intentions are, and what your intentions look to be externally. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me if someone is disagreeing with me, I make every effort to understand why, because nine times out of ten there is a very good reason why they are disagreeing. Sometimes it's hard not to take it personally, and in that regard I understand the stress Seth is experiencing (Kae too, now that I think about it). If I'm being blunt, Ron and I don't have as difficult jobs as those two. They constantly walk on a razor's edge, and I'm very thankful for what they've done overall, even if I disagree with their ideas and execution quite a bit.
All of this is a long winded way of saying that I understand both sides. I'm sure there is some bias, and I readily admit that I cannot possibly be impartial. But we do disagree, very often. That said, I get that it doesn't look good sometimes. I don't want us to become the next smartnt group chat. I don't want to become the next Wize. I want to help the community grow, and to do that it is CRUCIAL that I listen to the community. So that is what I'll do, and I will encourage my colleagues to continue to do the same. All I ask is that any discussion here stays calm, and we avoid calling people names, etc. Thanks!
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elmon
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fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Aug 13, 2020 12:44:37 GMT
But we do disagree, very often. This is the key part in my opinion, people don't understand how much we actually disagree on shit. It's beyond me how people can honestly think that we're a hivemind or some shit.
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fionn
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elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Aug 13, 2020 13:35:06 GMT
I'd like to defend myself and my peers because the shit that was mentioned in this thread is completely disproportionate and borderline slanderous The TotalFreedom Executive group is in no way a hivemind, at all. For you to assume that is complete rubbish. Each and every executive in that group-chat have worked hard to obtain, and for the past few months, retain their rank as an executive. I believe this thread was created as an act of coercion by three individuals I'm not going to name but who, I'm sure you know who you are. The amount of bullshit I've seen in this thread is something else. The executive team has worked hard to make TotalFreedom a great place. Earlier on, Seth said in the group chat Providing no other context, he said this whilst Kae was pitching another idea. He then says this, not providing context, no strategy, or no approach. He wanted to just remove us on the spot, which is completely against policy. Quite ironic for somebody who is so hellbent on following policies on every occasion. He then says we need to switch our entire executive team because we agree with each other sometimes. To which he then says due to us occasionally thinking alike, we should be removed. Let me note that we are in no way yes-men to anyone in that group-chat if I believe someone's way of going about things is wrong, I'll state my reasons why, proof of that as early as literally yesterday before all of this shit started, and again today, when this shit started. This seems like blatant coercion, I know I said I wasn't going to name any names above, but vJay is one of them. Now on to the people who actually began this whole thing. I know I said I wasn't going to name any names but I literally don't care because if this goes through I'm resigning before the day is out. vJay, you only recently returned, and it seems you've spewed bullshit everywhere you go. From criticizing things you haven't had a chance to even encounter, baseless non-sensical arguments & constant bickering, including this argument you where you began talking about me behind my back, to which I resorted to connecting to admin-chat to rebut your completely stupid claims. You talk behind people's back non-stop, calling them bad admins. You even trash-talked Seth in VC before. pastebin.com/TK4B73DJDragon, this honestly seems like a sad and pathetic attempt at getting back at kae for not accepting your IA report, which you're salty about, despite all of the times you said you wanted to action done. See here, when you, like vJay, started talking about me behind my back. fionnn.com/r5e-o1xq_fionnn.com/OgKFOh_1fTo which he prematurely finishes the conversation without responding again, not regarding that incident anyway. I'm not doing this out of pettiness, I'm doing this because if you're going to slam the names of the executives and myself into the ground, expect some rebuttals to your completely stupid out-of-context claims Nick, I've really nothing against you, but it seems like you're arguing nonsense here. And Seth, you're a great friend and I value you, as I've said in the executive group chat I feel bad for you and I don't think you should resign due to this incident. This is minor turbulence and I don't think you should resign, you're arguably the best owner we've had on this server. This is just a completely retarded take. this shows that the exec team clearly isn't taking the action that they should be doing, they are taking this as a joke and it shows. No, because Kae originally thought it was a joke due to how stupid seth was being, understandably. fionnn.com/inlOd3nORAnd that's supposed to excuse all immorality of the fact that you're glorifying a slave being whipped by a slave-owner on a kids game when you're the chief admin officer of the entire server. She didn't even build the build, Supermn did. If anyone banned an OP for building a slave owner whipping a shackled slave, I'd remove them from admin, OH WAIT, we do that because its fucking sickening and you having a red name and you "just joking" doesn't excuse shit. Refer to the above I've stopped back periodically over the years to check, so I know more than you probably think. Yep, because you're a know-it-all. You know the ins and outs of everything that happens in every group chat, you referring to the executive group chat is a prime example. Seriously? You say we agree on everything, you have never seen that group chat. It's literally almost disagreements 24/7 Because he's breaking policy to fit the needs of certain people. I am completely sure that if you were in our shoes, and Seth did the same thing to you, you'd be calling vote-off for Seth, for 'breaking policy' the exec team right now seems to just be a group yesman all agreeing to what kae is saying This couldn't so fucking skewed from the truth. This isn't 'smartnt 2' we weren't friends prior to being executives. Regarding this screenshot- seth.doesnt-have-a.life/w8fsy35.pngHere's some additional context fionnn.com/hwLjvwzr1That thread is a complete and utter joke. That's all I have to say
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Luke
Veteran Member
Go home to your family, Neo
Posts: 1,124
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Post by Luke on Aug 13, 2020 13:42:02 GMT
what people don't seem to understand is that if you work closely with someone, you are most likely going to become friends with them. That's just how it works. This isn't even exclusive to TF. This however doesn't mean their professional attitudes towards one another is impacted, it literally means they're friends.
where this all even started i have no clue and quite frankly don't care. its somehow once again turned into a 'higher up friend circle' thing which is absurd imo and thats coming from me, who's paranoid of this exact thing happening.
if yall dont like the execs vote them off. otherwise threads with 9 pages of drama aren't needed
as usual i might have got this wrong, might be misunderstanding entirely, please do feel free to let me know and ill amend this comment if needed
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
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Post by Wild1145 on Aug 13, 2020 13:46:05 GMT
Why is this still being discussed...? The original thread was locked, and frankly this is pouring more gas on the fire... Not really sure how any of this is currently helping anything.
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fionn
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elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Aug 13, 2020 13:49:23 GMT
Why is this still being discussed...? The original thread was locked, and frankly this is pouring more gas on the fire... Not really sure how any of this is currently helping anything. Because those of us who were asleep at the time of the thread being open didn't have time to defend theirselves
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Darth
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Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on Aug 13, 2020 13:49:31 GMT
Why is this still being discussed...? The original thread was locked, and frankly this is pouring more gas on the fire... Not really sure how any of this is currently helping anything. Because that thread happened in the middle of the night for some of us. The complaint seemed to be directed towards the entire executive team, and as such I wanted a chance to give my take on the situation. I carefully worded it to avoid being inflammatory.
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 13:51:18 GMT
Ill give my input here aswell to avoid multiple posts about the same topic from appearing on the forum.
Regarding "the executives are a powerhouse" This cannot be further from the truth. Even saying this shows a clear lack of understandment of what actually goes on between the executive team. I cannot speak for the other executives, but i definitely do not go to them for advice based on admin officer duties. My team is zekurt, zevante, fionn, and the IA team. Every decision is derived from a forum post / poll asking for public input. I frequently go in-game, use the discord general, and forums to ask for advice on how to implement ideas so that everyone is happy. Would you call zekurt, zevante, fionn, the ia team, everyone on the discord, and everyone on the forums a powerhouse? I don't think you would. I deliberately go out of my way to ask for public input so that everyone can feel satisfied with our publicly drafted policies.
Regarding the whole "Sks is racist." The statue in question was not even built by me. Suprmn found the schem, and before pasting it i asked Seth if it was okay. he said yes. The only thing we actually "built" was removing the penis from the original build and adding the fire around the base. I cannot fathom how you can possibly attribute this to the executive team being abusive and negligent. Nobody has ever actually reported it besides dragon, and in that case it was cleared as okay by the IA team. I do not understand how you can use this as evidence of me being racist and breaking the zero tolerance policy. The build was pasted before i was even EAO, and before the zero tolerance policy was even a thing.
Regarding me treating the initial interaction with seth saying "We need to wipe our exec list clean" as a joke. Idk if the full conversation with us is out there, but i was essentially not taking seth seriously. How could I? How crazy does it sound to say "I think we should wipe the exec team clean and start from new. Our current exec team is not diverse enough, and i will hand pick the replacements." That sounds absolutely crazy to me considering we have policies to remove executives for being abusive. Note that I did not say "Not diverse enough" because that doesn't even make any sense. You remove people when they dont do their job, you dont remove them because they all agree. If i removed everyone i didn't agree with half the admin team would be gone. I seriously thought seth was doing the "force minorities into roles to look appealing to public" thats present in modern day media such as movies and tv shows. I literally thought at the time he wanted more african americans on the server. Me saying "Considering your past" was a jab at seth because of his frequent use of the hard R in the past. For those saying that you can even joke in a situation like that clearly also demonstrates the lack of understandment of what goes on between the exec team. The exec groupchat is 70% memes. I personally dont find this a problem because at the end of the day, we're all friends. Friends joke around. That does not mean we do not get our work done and certainly does not mean we dont disagree from time to time.
Regarding me threatening seths position of power. I was merely using that comparison to show the hypocrisy of the situation. again, i do not know if the full conversation is out there. but it was essentially Seth: im going to break policy and wipe the exec team Me: im going to break policy and start the new ownership policy This is not me threatening seth in any way and was never intended to question his place of ownership. I don't know if you remember, but the clause that Seth campaigned for in the ownership policy was that the ownership policy could only be started up if he "Stopped paying for the server" Now doesnt it seem hypocritical that the owner wants his community to follow the policy when attempting to vote him out, but not follow policy when he wants to forcefully remove the execs? This was my comparison. At the end of day, seth is the owner and does call the final shots. But i still do believe not following policy is 100% abusive and wanted to portray his double standards he was ignortant to.
This isnt even an apology because I believe I havent done anything wrong. I believe the executive team also hasn't done anything wrong. If you do believe we have, then we have policies set in place that you should follow. I think breaking these policies for the "good" of the server is a bit stupid because its been demonstrated in the past that these policies are effective. Again, not saying seth doesnt have the power to not follow protocol, but i think not doing so puts an extreme lack of faith and understandment regarding this situation. It makes me upset that you can just throw out the communities input like that.
Im not saying I shouldn't be voted out, if you do believe so then vote yes on the upcoming approval polls. Im just wishing we follow the guidelines and not make impulsive decisions based on 3 peoples misconstrued thoughts on the executive team. Not following policy sets an incredibly bad standard. If the community has outgrown the need for me, or just in general doesnt like me then that's fine. Just follow the policy set in place to deal with it. It really should be that simple. That's what im upset about.
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zeseryu
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Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Aug 13, 2020 13:51:57 GMT
Why is this still being discussed...? The original thread was locked, and frankly this is pouring more gas on the fire... Not really sure how any of this is currently helping anything. the executive approval polls are also still happening.
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 13:58:40 GMT
That thread should never have been made, it catch me and the others of guard since Seth don't even tell us about it. I would admit that I jumped the gun abit since I was only in the VC hearing the others speak, providing screenshots and old IA reports, I actually don't mention anyone beside how Fionn acted unprofessional once or twice with me and why Asst Exec is a useless position and anyone can get it. (Edit: The Kae issue came after)
What really worried me the most is Seth's mental health and the way he dealt with this situation was indeed poor, however, the whole remove executive team wasn't originally my idea until what was said in the VC made sense to me in some way. Anyways, I was hoping to get this whole thing worked out by tomorrow as I planned it with the others guys before the whole thread thing.
I'm not really sorry for speaking out on what I believe is true but I must say that removing the whole executive team out of nowhere is a poor choice, and think that it was okay was kinda dumb from my side since everything went to shit not even an hour after that thread was posted.
So, long story short, my main worry is no longer the executive team and how they operate but it's Seth's mental health and he's ability to still stand as the Owner of TF.
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monkeh
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Post by monkeh on Aug 13, 2020 14:02:13 GMT
That thread should never have been made, it catch me and the others of guard since Seth don't even tell us about it. I would admit that I jumped the gun abit since I was only in the VC hearing the others speak, providing screenshots and old IA reports, I actually don't mention anyone beside how Fionn acted unprofessional once or twice with me and why Asst Exec is a useless position and anyone can get it. (Edit: The Kae issue came after) What really worried me the most is Seth's mental health and the way he dealt with this situation was indeed poor, however, the whole remove executive team wasn't originally my idea until what was said in the VC made sense to me in some way. Anyways, I was hoping to get this whole thing worked out by tomorrow as I planned it with the others guys before the whole thread thing. I'm not really sorry for speaking out on what I believe is true but I must say that removing the whole executive team out of nowhere is a poor choice, and think that it was okay was kinda dumb from my side since everything went to shit not even an hour after that thread was posted. So, long story short, my main worry is no longer the executive team and how they operate but it's Seth's mental health and he's ability to still stand as the Owner of TF. so you planned it with the other guys??? but you were caught off guard when the thread was made? it seemed like you guys were quite ready to start shitting on the exec team lol
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fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Aug 13, 2020 14:07:08 GMT
That thread should never have been made, it catch me and the others of guard since Seth don't even tell us about it. I would admit that I jumped the gun abit since I was only in the VC hearing the others speak, providing screenshots and old IA reports, I actually don't mention anyone beside how Fionn acted unprofessional once or twice with me and why Asst Exec is a useless position and anyone can get it. (Edit: The Kae issue came after) What really worried me the most is Seth's mental health and the way he dealt with this situation was indeed poor, however, the whole remove executive team wasn't originally my idea until what was said in the VC made sense to me in some way. Anyways, I was hoping to get this whole thing worked out by tomorrow as I planned it with the others guys before the whole thread thing. I'm not really sorry for speaking out on what I believe is true but I must say that removing the whole executive team out of nowhere is a poor choice, and think that it was okay was kinda dumb from my side since everything went to shit not even an hour after that thread was posted. So, long story short, my main worry is no longer the executive team and how they operate but it's Seth's mental health and he's ability to still stand as the Owner of TF. You don’t think we were caught offguard? I woke up to 2k unread messsges in the group chat and completely unaware of what was going on.
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nick
Veteran Member
Posts: 766
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Post by nick on Aug 13, 2020 14:12:26 GMT
That thread should never have been made, it catch me and the others of guard since Seth don't even tell us about it. I would admit that I jumped the gun abit since I was only in the VC hearing the others speak, providing screenshots and old IA reports, I actually don't mention anyone beside how Fionn acted unprofessional once or twice with me and why Asst Exec is a useless position and anyone can get it. (Edit: The Kae issue came after) What really worried me the most is Seth's mental health and the way he dealt with this situation was indeed poor, however, the whole remove executive team wasn't originally my idea until what was said in the VC made sense to me in some way. Anyways, I was hoping to get this whole thing worked out by tomorrow as I planned it with the others guys before the whole thread thing. I'm not really sorry for speaking out on what I believe is true but I must say that removing the whole executive team out of nowhere is a poor choice, and think that it was okay was kinda dumb from my side since everything went to shit not even an hour after that thread was posted. So, long story short, my main worry is no longer the executive team and how they operate but it's Seth's mental health and he's ability to still stand as the Owner of TF. so you planned it with the other guys??? but you were caught off guard when the thread was made? it seemed like you guys were quite ready to start shitting on the exec team lol Seth actually suggested us to take this matter to the public, others agreed and then I went AFK for a smoke right before they started making a thread. So if you think this was some evil master plan then you're mistaken.
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
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Post by Wild1145 on Aug 13, 2020 14:15:23 GMT
Why is this still being discussed...? The original thread was locked, and frankly this is pouring more gas on the fire... Not really sure how any of this is currently helping anything. Because that thread happened in the middle of the night for some of us. The complaint seemed to be directed towards the entire executive team, and as such I wanted a chance to give my take on the situation. I carefully worded it to avoid being inflammatory. It was more the reaction to your post that I was commenting on, but either way the thread is locked, and every time I or someone who isn't senior on the server does this, we get a warning for "Not taking it to DM's and causing more drama" and that's my main issue with this entire thread tbh
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Darth
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Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on Aug 13, 2020 14:17:28 GMT
Because that thread happened in the middle of the night for some of us. The complaint seemed to be directed towards the entire executive team, and as such I wanted a chance to give my take on the situation. I carefully worded it to avoid being inflammatory. It was more the reaction to your post that I was commenting on, but either way the thread is locked, and every time I or someone who isn't senior on the server does this, we get a warning for "Not taking it to DM's and causing more drama" and that's my main issue with this entire thread tbh You shouldn't be warned for that and I'll advocate for you and other non admins. Everyone should be given equal opportunity to defend themselves, as long as it doesn't devolve into flame wars (verbal insults).
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