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Post by zekurt on Jul 18, 2020 12:27:42 GMT
If this is the case I don't understand why every other admin in every other group chat have been exposed and punished for some malicious talk or anything. The discord server is an OFFICIAL part of our server. And DMs, that was related to OUR server. They wouldn't have known about Nathaniel if he never joined TF or his mental state (from what I'm reading that was the issue). Some of the votes here seem personal, sure, but Wilee literally has no acceptance of what he's done. It doesn't matter if it had malicious intent or not. He's DoX'd people before and what stops him from doing it again? Amend the conduct policy and he wont - did you read the thread? No one should be doxing members of this community (which he was) regardless of the rules... It's common fucking decency. No one should have to be worried about being doxed by someone here because it's technically okay (which it's still not). Fucking ridiculous. |
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 18, 2020 12:34:05 GMT
I would note in response to some of the above points that, up until the new conduct policy, it has been the case for years that an ex-admin was subject to admin conduct rules. In fact, the old conduct policy had this in the rule about going rogue. ex-admins have always been held to a higher standard than normal members, this will continue to stay the same. here is the rule about doxing in the admin conduct policy, written by me. e. Doxing any member of the Total Freedom community or using Total Freedom's platforms as a means to spread a DOX. "any member" is inclusive of anyone who has joined a totalfreedom platform, which nathan has done. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 13:59:39 GMT
Which is wrong... You have zero rights to enforce rules of this server in other places. Especially to players. Do you go and monitor what every other player does in their spare time? Unless you are I think you've banned a player for something that has nothing to do with you. The reason admins were always subject to the rules outside of the server was because they represent the server, but even then worst case scenario you'd be suspended, you weren't ever perm banned for braking the rules. If this is the case I don't understand why every other admin in every other group chat have been exposed and punished for some malicious talk or anything. The discord server is an OFFICIAL part of our server. And DMs, that was related to OUR server. They wouldn't have known about Nathaniel if he never joined TF or his mental state (from what I'm reading that was the issue). Some of the votes here seem personal, sure, but Wilee literally has no acceptance of what he's done. It doesn't matter if it had malicious intent or not. He's DoX'd people before and what stops him from doing it again? There is a difference as I've said many times between how we should handle admins in the scenario, and OP's. An admin is a representative of this server in a position of power, and should be held to a higher level of standards, and that's why I've said I have no issues with suspending an admin if their conduct away from the server could damage the reputation of the server. But Wilee is not a representative of the server, he's just a player, like you and me, why should what we do outside of the server be policed by people in the server. There's plenty of stuff I do on a daily basis that would break these rules, but it has nothing to do with this server and even if it did, I shouldn't be sanctioned for what I choose to do somewhere else. Yes, discord is OFFICIAL to our platform, but we don't own the entire of Discord, so what people do in their DM's is their business as far as I'm concerned, and that's how it always should have been. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 14:00:49 GMT
No the server has always used the term "operator" in regards to a rank. If you are banned you are by this definition no longer an op, and you are therefore no longer protected under the clause. operator has been used as the default member rank on the server. if you join the server and nobody ops you, its okay for them to be doxed? No. Stop being ridiculous lol. this is the rule wilee was banned under - our discord rules. Both wilee, nathan, and video were apart of the discord when it happened. 6. If I, or any of the discord staff, find that you have dox’d or ddos’d anyone in the community, you will be banned. Even if you discuss doing so, you’re out of luck when it comes to staying in this server. Oh, also you will be banned from everywhere else too  We've told you nathan is a part of the community, so the ban is valid. I'd argue in permanently banning someone, you remove them from the community. Is Wilee currently part of the community, he can't express an opinion or collaborate, so I'd argue he's not. And again, that rule is applicable to the discord server, they didn't do this in the discord server so should never have been enforced, it's overreaching of power plain and simple. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 14:01:33 GMT
Amend the conduct policy and he wont - did you read the thread? No one should be doxing members of this community (which he was) regardless of the rules... It's common fucking decency. No one should have to be worried about being doxed by someone here because it's technically okay (which it's still not). Fucking ridiculous. Then file a police report... We're not the fucking internet police for the last bloody time. |
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jul 18, 2020 14:06:28 GMT
No one should be doxing members of this community (which he was) regardless of the rules... It's common fucking decency. No one should have to be worried about being doxed by someone here because it's technically okay (which it's still not). Fucking ridiculous. Then file a police report... We're not the fucking internet police for the last bloody time. Nobody would have known about this if Video didn't report it himself. Nobody is going around checking people's DM's for shit they might be doing. IA received a report and handled it as an unbiased third party. |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jul 18, 2020 15:10:47 GMT
This rule doesn't limit to the Discord Server, it says "If I, or any of the discord staff, find out you have dox'd or ddos'd anyone in the community, you will be banned" It does not say "In this discord server". It's globally-acceptable. That's sort of my point... You can't enforce rules that people A) May not even be aware of, there are people who aren't in discord To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there |
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 18, 2020 15:11:31 GMT
That's sort of my point... You can't enforce rules that people A) May not even be aware of, there are people who aren't in discord To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there He was |
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Geek
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Post by Geek on Jul 18, 2020 15:19:40 GMT
To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there Ignorance of the rules has almost never been an excuse - in real-life or on the server. |
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jul 18, 2020 15:31:28 GMT
To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there Ignorance of the rules has almost never been an excuse - in real-life or on the server. That's because in real life the rules aren't extraordinarily contradictory with the complete opposite being stated in different places and then both being applied at the same time. Comparing this situation to real life is a joke, and even comparing it to the server is a joke considering the years of precedence on this matter we can refer to. And just as another point, you can argue for years on the fact of whether he should have been banned. It's clear where people stand on that, the rules are a clusterfuck and cherry picking happened to ban him. What we should be talking more about though is if the punishment meets the crime. Please show me where the malintent was? Wilee did not seek to harm anyone, he helped out someone seeking to help another. For everyone asking for him to apologize, he didn't act to hurt anyone, he didn't act to attack anyone, he didn't act to scare someone, he acted to try and help someone. He shouldn't apologize, I wouldn't if I were in the same position. |
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97
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Post by 97 on Jul 18, 2020 15:32:37 GMT
To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there  He is in the Discord. EDIT: This is no imposter either. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 15:42:40 GMT
Then file a police report... We're not the fucking internet police for the last bloody time. Nobody would have known about this if Video didn't report it himself. Nobody is going around checking people's DM's for shit they might be doing. IA received a report and handled it as an unbiased third party. So..? It's executive overreach... This didn't happen on a TF platform, and IMO the server has no reason to interfere with what people do in their own time. If this comes to light and the server no longer feel video should be an admin that's one thing, but you should not be banning players for what they do OFF of the server. |
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jul 18, 2020 15:44:24 GMT
Nobody would have known about this if Video didn't report it himself. Nobody is going around checking people's DM's for shit they might be doing. IA received a report and handled it as an unbiased third party. So..? It's executive overreach... This didn't happen on a TF platform, and IMO the server has no reason to interfere with what people do in their own time. If this comes to light and the server no longer feel video should be an admin that's one thing, but you should not be banning players for what they do OFF of the server. Ex admins are held to a higher standard, which wilee is. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 15:44:24 GMT
To my knowledge Wilee wasn't a member of the discord server, and would never have been made aware of this rule which was exclusively there Ignorance of the rules has almost never been an excuse - in real-life or on the server. If you have no way to even know what the rules are, how the fuck can it be enforced. And again, it missed the point. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN ON A TF PLATFORM... I really don't get why people are defending this decision when it is nothing but overreaching of authority. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 15:45:40 GMT
So..? It's executive overreach... This didn't happen on a TF platform, and IMO the server has no reason to interfere with what people do in their own time. If this comes to light and the server no longer feel video should be an admin that's one thing, but you should not be banning players for what they do OFF of the server. Ex admins are held to a higher standard, which wilee is. He's just that... An Ex admin, which currently makes him just a player, no different to myself. I've had this argument a number of times before, Wilee has no rank on this server, and should be held to the same level as every other player, unless you're going to force people to hold an admin rank or leave entirely... Again, It's one thing to suspend / remove a rank because it looks bad, but you should NOT be banning people for what they choose to do in their own time away from this server. |
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