miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 18, 2020 8:18:48 GMT
Give me a worded response on your interpretation of "Ops, Admins and Owners". This server users "OP" to describe all non admin members of this server. Whether or not a banned player is a member of this server or not has been discussed and you already know my stance on that. No the server has always used the term "operator" in regards to a rank. If you are banned you are by this definition no longer an op, and you are therefore no longer protected under the clause. |
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Luke
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Go home to your family, Neo
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Post by Luke on Jul 18, 2020 8:28:53 GMT
bruh its been like 4 pages of arguing when are yall just gonna accept you have differing views
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 8:55:12 GMT
It was an unwritten rule (now stated in the updated policy) on the forums that I would remove anyone from all platforms if they were caught DDoSing / doxxing. I did however state it on the discord server:  But this did not happen in the Discord server, and you had a contradicting statement on the forum rules. You can't ban someone from every platform when you don't even have a rule for it... What if these people were not in the discord, are you going to enforce a rule on someone that they simply never could have accessed especially when it then contradicts the forum guidelines... You're picking and choosing which rules to enforce where and that's my point on this thread, they should never have been banned from the forums or in game. |
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 18, 2020 9:48:43 GMT
It was an unwritten rule (now stated in the updated policy) on the forums that I would remove anyone from all platforms if they were caught DDoSing / doxxing. I did however state it on the discord server: But this did not happen in the Discord server, and you had a contradicting statement on the forum rules. You can't ban someone from every platform when you don't even have a rule for it... What if these people were not in the discord, are you going to enforce a rule on someone that they simply never could have accessed especially when it then contradicts the forum guidelines... You're picking and choosing which rules to enforce where and that's my point on this thread, they should never have been banned from the forums or in game. This rule doesn't limit to the Discord Server, it says "If I, or any of the discord staff, find out you have dox'd or ddos'd anyone in the community, you will be banned" It does not say "In this discord server". It's globally-acceptable. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 9:51:52 GMT
But this did not happen in the Discord server, and you had a contradicting statement on the forum rules. You can't ban someone from every platform when you don't even have a rule for it... What if these people were not in the discord, are you going to enforce a rule on someone that they simply never could have accessed especially when it then contradicts the forum guidelines... You're picking and choosing which rules to enforce where and that's my point on this thread, they should never have been banned from the forums or in game. This rule doesn't limit to the Discord Server, it says "If I, or any of the discord staff, find out you have dox'd or ddos'd anyone in the community, you will be banned" It does not say "In this discord server". It's globally-acceptable. That's sort of my point... You can't enforce rules that people A) May not even be aware of, there are people who aren't in discord B) Don't even happen on the servers platforms... You are NOT the internet police and should not be trying to do that. See the hot fuzz reference of "Fuck off up the model village" You again also have the argument of the person in question is banned and therefore not a part of the community, but my point here is you are enforcing rules that are part of being a part of that community, they didn't break the rules in that community, and I'm not even sure if they were in there (I've only joined the discord again recently, and very probably will leave again because I don't use it), so you can't go banning people for rules that they may not have even been able to know they broke, and you can't be banning people for what they do in their own time outside of the server. I'm all for demoting admins and such for doing it, because it's bad PR, but if it were any other OP do you honestly think we'd be having this conversation? |
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 18, 2020 9:55:22 GMT
A) May not even be aware of, there are people who aren't in discord But both the users in question were B) Don't even happen on the servers platforms... You are NOT the internet police and should not be trying to do that. See the hot fuzz reference of "Fuck off up the model village" find out you have dox'd or ddos'd anyone in the communityYou again also have the argument of the person in question is banned and therefore not a part of the community Except they were a recurring operator. They were still a member of the forums at the time of this ban, and they also frequently bypassed bans to join the server. He also bypassed discord bans. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 9:58:17 GMT
A) May not even be aware of, there are people who aren't in discord But both the users in question were B) Don't even happen on the servers platforms... You are NOT the internet police and should not be trying to do that. See the hot fuzz reference of "Fuck off up the model village" find out you have dox'd or ddos'd anyone in the communityYou again also have the argument of the person in question is banned and therefore not a part of the community Except they were a recurring operator. They were still a member of the forums at the time of this ban, and they also frequently bypassed bans to join the server. He also bypassed discord bans. Cool, so let's go back to the root of this. There's a rule in Discord that says one thing, there is a forum conduct policy that contradicts that with a post from Seth saying he no longer wants to do this whole ban from everywhere. You can not pick and choose when you follow one rule vs the other. You also cannot be the Internet police anyway, what right do you have to ban someone for a private conversation they had, you're not the fucking NSA... |
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 18, 2020 9:59:32 GMT
There's a rule in Discord that says one thing, there is a forum conduct policy that contradicts that with a post from Seth saying he no longer wants to do this whole ban from everywhere. Nothing contradicts anything except for a throwaway comment Seth made. It was removed from the forums guidelines but it was not removed from the Discord Rules, therefore regardless of circumstance it was still in effect |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 10:01:30 GMT
There's a rule in Discord that says one thing, there is a forum conduct policy that contradicts that with a post from Seth saying he no longer wants to do this whole ban from everywhere. Nothing contradicts anything except for a throwaway comment Seth made. It was removed from the forums guidelines but it was not removed from the Discord Rules, therefore regardless of circumstance it was still in effect It contradicts it's self... That's my point, you can't enforce one rule when you feel like it and another somewhere else. And that 'Throwaway comment' was on the forum posting guidelines, you know that official thing that decides what rules are enforced... You also ignore my point again, we're not the internet police, it is not right for you to impose the rules of this server for what people do in their own time and outside of the community. |
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fionn
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elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Jul 18, 2020 10:03:10 GMT
You also ignore my point again, we're not the internet police, it is not right for you to impose the rules of this server for what people do in their own time and outside of the community. But when it's a member of this community we're going to punish if the doxxer was also a member of this community. |
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 18, 2020 10:06:11 GMT
You also ignore my point again, we're not the internet police, it is not right for you to impose the rules of this server for what people do in their own time and outside of the community. But when it's a member of this community we're going to punish if the doxxer was also a member of this community. Which is wrong... You have zero rights to enforce rules of this server in other places. Especially to players. Do you go and monitor what every other player does in their spare time? Unless you are I think you've banned a player for something that has nothing to do with you. The reason admins were always subject to the rules outside of the server was because they represent the server, but even then worst case scenario you'd be suspended, you weren't ever perm banned for braking the rules. |
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taah
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sick af
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Post by taah on Jul 18, 2020 11:31:14 GMT
But when it's a member of this community we're going to punish if the doxxer was also a member of this community. Which is wrong... You have zero rights to enforce rules of this server in other places. Especially to players. Do you go and monitor what every other player does in their spare time? Unless you are I think you've banned a player for something that has nothing to do with you. The reason admins were always subject to the rules outside of the server was because they represent the server, but even then worst case scenario you'd be suspended, you weren't ever perm banned for braking the rules. If this is the case I don't understand why every other admin in every other group chat have been exposed and punished for some malicious talk or anything. The discord server is an OFFICIAL part of our server. And DMs, that was related to OUR server. They wouldn't have known about Nathaniel if he never joined TF or his mental state (from what I'm reading that was the issue). Some of the votes here seem personal, sure, but Wilee literally has no acceptance of what he's done. It doesn't matter if it had malicious intent or not. He's DoX'd people before and what stops him from doing it again? |
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 18, 2020 11:44:36 GMT
Which is wrong... You have zero rights to enforce rules of this server in other places. Especially to players. Do you go and monitor what every other player does in their spare time? Unless you are I think you've banned a player for something that has nothing to do with you. The reason admins were always subject to the rules outside of the server was because they represent the server, but even then worst case scenario you'd be suspended, you weren't ever perm banned for braking the rules. If this is the case I don't understand why every other admin in every other group chat have been exposed and punished for some malicious talk or anything. The discord server is an OFFICIAL part of our server. And DMs, that was related to OUR server. They wouldn't have known about Nathaniel if he never joined TF or his mental state (from what I'm reading that was the issue). Some of the votes here seem personal, sure, but Wilee literally has no acceptance of what he's done. It doesn't matter if it had malicious intent or not. He's DoX'd people before and what stops him from doing it again? Amend the conduct policy and he wont - did you read the thread? |
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zeseryu
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Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 18, 2020 12:15:36 GMT
This server users "OP" to describe all non admin members of this server. Whether or not a banned player is a member of this server or not has been discussed and you already know my stance on that. No the server has always used the term "operator" in regards to a rank. If you are banned you are by this definition no longer an op, and you are therefore no longer protected under the clause. operator has been used as the default member rank on the server. if you join the server and nobody ops you, its okay for them to be doxed? No. Stop being ridiculous lol. this is the rule wilee was banned under - our discord rules. Both wilee, nathan, and video were apart of the discord when it happened. 6. If I, or any of the discord staff, find that you have dox’d or ddos’d anyone in the community, you will be banned. Even if you discuss doing so, you’re out of luck when it comes to staying in this server. Oh, also you will be banned from everywhere else too  We've told you nathan is a part of the community, so the ban is valid. |
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Geek
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Post by Geek on Jul 18, 2020 12:24:46 GMT
I would note in response to some of the above points that, up until the new conduct policy, it has been the case for years that an ex-admin was subject to admin conduct rules. In fact, the old conduct policy had this in the rule about going rogue.
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- Achieved March 1, added March 16 (early)
