zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
|
Post by zeseryu on Jun 12, 2020 21:56:06 GMT
I just want to note that the way you add people is broken im pretty sure.
You can't do it by using tf!console in discord
You can't do it while the person is offline
You can't do it from AMP
You can't do it in-game
You have to download a Telnet client and run the command through there
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 12, 2020 21:56:32 GMT
They don't need to be online at the same time... Maybe if you played you would know... You can't. I am saying that both should change because it makes no sense to do it otherwise. I do think that if you support telnets having access to those commands then you should also support players having access to ban commands because it's literally the same logic you are using right now. That's a complete false equivalency. Literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Read what I said please instead of skipping over the details in which I literally explained to you how it is. A database isn't something which is only accessible when a person is online, as it already is it's possible to do it since it's a database, and you can make it even easier through an optimization which would take less than 2 minutes to add which would allow you to do it for offline players. It's not a false equivalency, it's the exact same logic. A telnet admin's job is the same as a super admin's, to moderate the server for players. If you're giving that rank the power that only an admin officer should realistically have just because the "admin officer might not be available", then why should players not have the ability to ban people when admins aren't online?
|
|
fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
Posts: 6,157
| Likes: 4,775
|
Post by fionn on Jun 12, 2020 21:58:55 GMT
You can't do it by using tf!console in discord Yes you can Yes you can Yes you can You have to download a Telnet client and run the command through there No you don't
|
|
zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
|
Post by zeseryu on Jun 12, 2020 22:00:02 GMT
You can't do it by using tf!console in discord Yes you can Yes you can Yes you can You have to download a Telnet client and run the command through there No you don't All of what I said is true because I had to do it like last week. Unless you're telling me I dont have the correct permissions?
|
|
|
Post by SupItsDillon on Jun 12, 2020 22:02:06 GMT
Maybe if you played you would know... You can't. That's a complete false equivalency. Read what I said please instead of skipping over the details in which I literally explained to you how it is. A database isn't something which is only accessible when a person is online, as it already is it's possible to do it since it's a database, and you can make it even easier through an optimization which would take less than 2 minutes to add which would allow you to do it for offline players. It's not a false equivalency, it's the exact same logic. A telnet admin's job is the same as a super admin's, to moderate the server for players. If you're giving that rank the power that only an admin officer should realistically have just because the "admin officer might not be available", then why should players not have the ability to ban people when admins aren't online? Why change something that has been in place for as long as I can remember? What if an admin needs to be supered after verifying and there isn’t anyone above a telnet online? You say why give a telnet the power of an admin officer, but when have you seen a telnet admin approve an admin application? I feel like you’re trying to make an argument out of nothing and I actually have no idea why you literally disagree with any suggestion like this, as you effectively haven’t joined the server in years, as elmon pointed out. Fair enough you can provide criticism towards suggestions, but when you make an argument out of nothing, it gets very annoying.
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 12, 2020 22:02:19 GMT
1. Admins go rogue. While I don't think we should regulate everything we do just in case of that possibility, I think it's dumb to give excessive powers to admins that they should not have. People don't need to have access to these things and allowing it just enables more fuckups. 2. It's illogical, irrational, and beyond the scope of power of admins. Do you support players having access to ban commands? No, then you shouldn't support admins having the ability to make anybody an admin. False equivalency - Admins have been selected because they can be trusted, and regular players don't have that same credibility. Beyond that, Telnet admins are selected because they have shown that they can handle Super Admin for an extended period of time. Player: a user of the server Super Admin: Players with moderation commands Telnet Admin: Super Admins with console access Executive Admin Officer: promotes people to admin positions Fundamentally, that's how the ranking system works, you don't get promoted because you are deemed trustworthy, you get promoted because people vouch for you for whatever reason they want. Adding reasons which don't exist on a realistic basis to justify going over the scope of a rank's power is basically mental gymnastics. Now what sounds fitting here? One of these ranks has the ability to "promote people to admin positions." So which rank do we give access to promoting people to admin? Ah, telnet admin, there it goes. By that same logic, there's nothing wrong with giving players access to moderation commands, because it's just as organized and logical as the decision to give telnet admins access to that.
|
|
fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
Posts: 6,157
| Likes: 4,775
|
Post by fionn on Jun 12, 2020 22:04:18 GMT
Yes you can Yes you can Yes you can No you don't All of what I said is true because I had to do it like last week. Unless you're telling me I dont have the correct permissions? I just tested in game. Unless Executive permissions are messed up / you ran the wrong command ion know what was upi thought you meant saconfig ? i am retarded
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jun 12, 2020 22:06:02 GMT
Maybe if you played you would know... You can't. That's a complete false equivalency. Read what I said please instead of skipping over the details in which I literally explained to you how it is. A database isn't something which is only accessible when a person is online, as it already is it's possible to do it since it's a database, and you can make it even easier through an optimization which would take less than 2 minutes to add which would allow you to do it for offline players. It's not a false equivalency, it's the exact same logic. A telnet admin's job is the same as a super admin's, to moderate the server for players. If you're giving that rank the power that only an admin officer should realistically have just because the "admin officer might not be available", then why should players not have the ability to ban people when admins aren't online? You're the one suggesting to remove functionality that has existed for as long as the rank has existed, so you're the one who needs to give a convincing reason to remove it, not the other way around. So far all you said is "They can't accept apps so they shoudn't have perms to add people." If a telnet adds someone to admin that isn't authorised then just suspend them? it's that simple. Stop trying to create an argument out of nothing please.
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 12, 2020 22:08:24 GMT
Read what I said please instead of skipping over the details in which I literally explained to you how it is. A database isn't something which is only accessible when a person is online, as it already is it's possible to do it since it's a database, and you can make it even easier through an optimization which would take less than 2 minutes to add which would allow you to do it for offline players. It's not a false equivalency, it's the exact same logic. A telnet admin's job is the same as a super admin's, to moderate the server for players. If you're giving that rank the power that only an admin officer should realistically have just because the "admin officer might not be available", then why should players not have the ability to ban people when admins aren't online? Why change something that has been in place for as long as I can remember? What if an admin needs to be supered after verifying and there isn’t anyone above a telnet online? You say why give a telnet the power of an admin officer, but when have you seen a telnet admin approve an admin application? I feel like you’re trying to make an argument out of nothing and I actually have no idea why you literally disagree with any suggestion like this, as you effectively haven’t joined the server in years, as elmon pointed out. Fair enough you can provide criticism towards suggestions, but when you make an argument out of nothing, it gets very annoying. Because it makes no sense for a random rank to have access to an ability that we literally have an executive position for? Just because we've had something that makes no sense in place for years doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. We had "Telnet Clan" for several years, luckily we saw past that and got rid of it because it was nonsense, we can change things that don't make sense regardless of how long we've had them. Having a suggestion which proposes ideas like "all admins should be able to make somebody a master builder" puts this into perspective, keep the ability to the executive position it belongs to. You further evidence what I'm saying by bringing up admin verification. If an admin joins the server and only a super admin is online, why should that super admin not be able to verify them but a telnet admin should be able to?
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 12, 2020 22:14:52 GMT
Read what I said please instead of skipping over the details in which I literally explained to you how it is. A database isn't something which is only accessible when a person is online, as it already is it's possible to do it since it's a database, and you can make it even easier through an optimization which would take less than 2 minutes to add which would allow you to do it for offline players. It's not a false equivalency, it's the exact same logic. A telnet admin's job is the same as a super admin's, to moderate the server for players. If you're giving that rank the power that only an admin officer should realistically have just because the "admin officer might not be available", then why should players not have the ability to ban people when admins aren't online? You're the one suggesting to remove functionality that has existed for as long as the rank has existed, so you're the one who needs to give a convincing reason to remove it, not the other way around. So far all you said is "They can't accept apps so they shoudn't have perms to add people." If a telnet adds someone to admin that isn't authorised then just suspend them? it's that simple. Stop trying to create an argument out of nothing please. Your logic continues to dismantle itself... if a player bans somebody who didn't break the rules, then just ban the player. It's not their job, so they shouldn't have the ability to do so to begin with. Luckily, we have an established executive position which we trust to handle these matters over letting any telnet admin mess around with it. My reason to remove it has already been presented to you as a purely logical and organizational problem, and so far I've had 3 telnet admins disagree without a coherent defense of the system. And the reason why there isn't a coherent defense of it is because there isn't one, it's just "whatever was put there" back more than half a decade ago and therefore why not keep it around?
|
|
zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
|
Post by zeseryu on Jun 12, 2020 22:24:11 GMT
|
|
mattlawn
Veteran Member
back
Posts: 1,488
| Likes: 490
|
Post by mattlawn on Jun 12, 2020 22:27:33 GMT
it should be telnets and up just like readding admins
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jun 12, 2020 22:27:44 GMT
You're the one suggesting to remove functionality that has existed for as long as the rank has existed, so you're the one who needs to give a convincing reason to remove it, not the other way around. So far all you said is "They can't accept apps so they shoudn't have perms to add people." If a telnet adds someone to admin that isn't authorised then just suspend them? it's that simple. Stop trying to create an argument out of nothing please. Your logic continues to dismantle itself... if a player bans somebody who didn't break the rules, then just ban the player. It's not their job, so they shouldn't have the ability to do so to begin with. Luckily, we have an established executive position which we trust to handle these matters over letting any telnet admin mess around with it. My reason to remove it has already been presented to you as a purely logical and organizational problem, and so far I've had 3 telnet admins disagree without a coherent defense of the system. And the reason why there isn't a coherent defense of it is because there isn't one, it's just "whatever was put there" back more than half a decade ago and therefore why not keep it around? You cannot seriously be comparing an admin with telnet access to the server being able to add someone to Super Admin, to an op being able to ban players?
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 12, 2020 22:39:54 GMT
Your logic continues to dismantle itself... if a player bans somebody who didn't break the rules, then just ban the player. It's not their job, so they shouldn't have the ability to do so to begin with. Luckily, we have an established executive position which we trust to handle these matters over letting any telnet admin mess around with it. My reason to remove it has already been presented to you as a purely logical and organizational problem, and so far I've had 3 telnet admins disagree without a coherent defense of the system. And the reason why there isn't a coherent defense of it is because there isn't one, it's just "whatever was put there" back more than half a decade ago and therefore why not keep it around? You cannot seriously be comparing an admin with telnet access to the server being able to add someone to Super Admin, to an op being able to ban players? In both cases, it's one rank having access to something that only a different rank should have access to.
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jun 12, 2020 23:01:47 GMT
You cannot seriously be comparing an admin with telnet access to the server being able to add someone to Super Admin, to an op being able to ban players? In both cases, it's one rank having access to something that only a different rank should have access to. That's entirely your opinion and is in no way a justification for you to make them seem the same. Also, promoting admins to a rank =/= adding them to saconfig which is what you tried to say earlier...
|
|