StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on May 17, 2020 21:51:35 GMT
How does this work with forum permissions? I saw some access to the forum logs being given out already, and I don't have a problem with that, but it would be nice to know who will get access to what aside from the "executive" part. Forum perms should only be given to leads right now, so I have no idea what you're talking about Edit: When IA was established, forum perms were only given to me and SKS so i'm not sure who you'd be referring to. Then I guess I won't refrain from stating the name. fionn currently has access to the forum logs as a member of the Internal Affairs (formerly Elevated Perms) group. They were added to this group by SKS or Seth, depending on how you read the logs. I don't know whether this is intended, all I know is that this is currently the case.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 21:54:31 GMT
Forum perms should only be given to leads right now, so I have no idea what you're talking about Edit: When IA was established, forum perms were only given to me and SKS so i'm not sure who you'd be referring to. Then I guess I won't refrain from stating the name. fionn currently has access to the forum logs as a member of the Internal Affairs (formerly Elevated Perms) group. They were added to this group by SKS or Seth, depending on how you read the logs. I don't know whether this is intended, all I know is that this is currently the case. That should be a fluke, i'll have that corrected today
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 21:58:59 GMT
Not disagreeing that the assistant admin office is useless in terms of a position, but I disagree that you or anyone on IA should ever hold it at the same time as doing your role. I will continue to treat IA like the enemy I believe it is, because I think it's a cancer to this server, it encourages the behavior I don't think we should endorse where frankly everyone always has to be looking behind their back in-case someone decides to fuck them over if they have a lapse of judgement... If the decision is there will no longer be an assistant admin office, that is very very different to you or anyone in IA taking on that role and I think that is my key point here, you, nor anyone on your staff should hold an executive position, and to do so would be a blatant conflict of interest. "IA is the enemy and is cancer" I guess removing corrupt admins from their lofty positions is criminal. It also doesn't encourage the type of "oh fuck admins are out to get me" behavior. It does if you're a corrupt shitmin that plays around too much and is racist, but doesn't if you're a good noodle that actually does your fucking job instead of cry on forums while never playing on the actual server. Edit: You LITERALLY have nothing to worry about unless you're an abusive admin. Don't need to gas light others into believing we're the enemy when we aren't. Besides that, I do understand some of the points you're referring too; but like i said, there just needs to be a degree of trust in us; otherwise we can't do our job which is safeguard TF from stupid petty bullshit and breach of power. I'd like to say we've already addressed enough situations to be warranted the benefit of doubt that we will continue to do our job in the name of this server's prosperity; and if not we will continue to address any server related issues until we can further prove that we're here for the benefit of the community.
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
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Post by Wild1145 on May 17, 2020 22:03:28 GMT
Not disagreeing that the assistant admin office is useless in terms of a position, but I disagree that you or anyone on IA should ever hold it at the same time as doing your role. I will continue to treat IA like the enemy I believe it is, because I think it's a cancer to this server, it encourages the behavior I don't think we should endorse where frankly everyone always has to be looking behind their back in-case someone decides to fuck them over if they have a lapse of judgement... If the decision is there will no longer be an assistant admin office, that is very very different to you or anyone in IA taking on that role and I think that is my key point here, you, nor anyone on your staff should hold an executive position, and to do so would be a blatant conflict of interest. "IA is the enemy and is cancer" I guess removing corrupt admins from their lofty positions is criminal. It also doesn't encourage the type of "oh fuck admins are out to get me" behavior. It does if you're a corrupt shitmin that plays around too much and is racist, but doesn't if you're a good noodle that actually does your fucking job instead of cry on forums while never playing on the actual server. Don't see why you're making this about me, I fully own that I don't play the server. There is a reason I stepped down as an admin, and it's because I knew I didn't have the interest to dedicate to administrating, and I don't regret that. Still means I can have a valid opinion on here. Also, not sure what my 'Job' is since I am not an admin, don't run the discord anymore and the server doesn't even use the main version of TFM, so happy for you to enlighten me on that in a PM if you want to make this a personal battle. I stand by my argument, you're creating a toxic environment where people will end up being scared to screw up because they will be worried someone will 'Dob them in', We haven't had a need for IA for the last god knows how many years this server is running, and I don't think we do now. But again, that's nothing to do with this thread. My point is, has been and continues to be. IA should not have any executive powers, and to do so would be a blatant conflict of interest. I don't believe you can or should effectively be investigating yourselves which is a realistic possibility in an executive position. You should be making formal recommendations to the server owner and executives with evidence, and should not be acting as a judge jury and executioner as I've said. Edit based on your edit - Edit: You LITERALLY have nothing to worry about unless you're an abusive admin. Don't need to gas light others into believing we're the enemy when we aren't. I'm sure the German Secret police were saying the same thing in World War 2, we all know how well that went don't we...
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 22:03:29 GMT
Updated the thread to clarify how voting occurs (just goes off of how Seth already runs it, no changes). I still haven't received a response on how to update this thread for Internal Affairs/Admin Officer if there's misinformation.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 22:05:18 GMT
Forum perms should only be given to leads right now, so I have no idea what you're talking about Edit: When IA was established, forum perms were only given to me and SKS so i'm not sure who you'd be referring to. Then I guess I won't refrain from stating the name. fionn currently has access to the forum logs as a member of the Internal Affairs (formerly Elevated Perms) group. They were added to this group by SKS or Seth, depending on how you read the logs. I don't know whether this is intended, all I know is that this is currently the case. Actually, it looks like this was intentional and I saw nothing about Internal Affairs having anything to do with it:
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 22:07:51 GMT
I feel like a forum administrator should split off the meta discussion about Internal Affairs off of this thread, I just want this policy to be written aside from how that works.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 22:08:53 GMT
Don't see why you're making this about me, I fully own that I don't play the server. There is a reason I stepped down as an admin, and it's because I knew I didn't have the interest to dedicate to administrating, and I don't regret that. Still means I can have a valid opinion on here. Also, not sure what my 'Job' is since I am not an admin, don't run the discord anymore and the server doesn't even use the main version of TFM, so happy for you to enlighten me on that in a PM if you want to make this a personal battle. I'm not making this about you, you dummy lmfao. I'm referring to the people we keep our eyes on because there's tons of shitmins that don't do anything on the server except shitpost on forums and discord. Don't gotta be defensive bud.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on May 17, 2020 22:10:35 GMT
Then I guess I won't refrain from stating the name. fionn currently has access to the forum logs as a member of the Internal Affairs (formerly Elevated Perms) group. They were added to this group by SKS or Seth, depending on how you read the logs. I don't know whether this is intended, all I know is that this is currently the case. Actually, it looks like this was intentional and I saw nothing about Internal Affairs having anything to do with it: I gave fionn the "elevated permissions" group which was made for IA. Fionn is in IA. I just learned today from Zevante about 5 minutes ago that only leaders should get elevated perms. Thats my mistake I assumed. Once i found out a couple days ago that Seth removed fionns roles i didnt add it back, but i guess you're not going to add that screenshot
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 22:12:53 GMT
Actually, it looks like this was intentional and I saw nothing about Internal Affairs having anything to do with it: I gave fionn the "elevated permissions" group which was made for IA. Fionn is in IA. I just learned today from Zevante about 5 minutes ago that only leaders should get elevated perms. Thats my mistake I assumed. Once i found out a couple days ago that Seth removed fionns roles i didnt add it back, but i guess you're not going to add that screenshot I was showing how it happened, not what happened afterwards (which I have no clue about).
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
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Post by Wild1145 on May 17, 2020 22:14:20 GMT
Don't see why you're making this about me, I fully own that I don't play the server. There is a reason I stepped down as an admin, and it's because I knew I didn't have the interest to dedicate to administrating, and I don't regret that. Still means I can have a valid opinion on here. Also, not sure what my 'Job' is since I am not an admin, don't run the discord anymore and the server doesn't even use the main version of TFM, so happy for you to enlighten me on that in a PM if you want to make this a personal battle. I'm not making this about you, you dummy lmfao. I'm referring to the people we keep our eyes on because there's tons of shitmins that don't do anything on the server except shitpost on forums and discord. Don't gotta be defensive bud. Okay, I'll accept I may have mis-interpreted that then. Doesn't explain though why you imply it's your job to to now handle activity checks? My ultimate issue with all of this, is your scope and power has not been clearly defined, and as we're discovering in this discussion, it seems to be pretty fluid and change to what you think it should in the course of a conversation, and that scares the absolute shit out of me. Basically sounds like you can do what you want when you like because you think you know better than the rest of us. I'm sure that's not the intention, but that's how it comes across to someone like myself who has seen this all to many times before while sitting around on the forums.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on May 17, 2020 22:15:07 GMT
I gave fionn the "elevated permissions" group which was made for IA. Fionn is in IA. I just learned today from Zevante about 5 minutes ago that only leaders should get elevated perms. Thats my mistake I assumed. Once i found out a couple days ago that Seth removed fionns roles i didnt add it back, but i guess you're not going to add that screenshot I was showing how it happened, not what happened afterwards (which I have no clue about). So to answer Stevens confusion, yes it was intentional, and yes it has to do with IA
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 22:17:37 GMT
I was showing how it happened, not what happened afterwards (which I have no clue about). So to answer Stevens confusion, yes it was intentional, and yes it has to do with IA IA leads are supposed to have perms only. Didn't clarify with sks or "zeseryu" because they were being promoted and I neglected to tell them while they were still acting as an IA lead.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 22:32:06 GMT
I'm not making this about you, you dummy lmfao. I'm referring to the people we keep our eyes on because there's tons of shitmins that don't do anything on the server except shitpost on forums and discord. Don't gotta be defensive bud. Okay, I'll accept I may have mis-interpreted that then. Doesn't explain though why you imply it's your job to to now handle activity checks? My ultimate issue with all of this, is your scope and power has not been clearly defined, and as we're discovering in this discussion, it seems to be pretty fluid and change to what you think it should in the course of a conversation, and that scares the absolute shit out of me. Basically sounds like you can do what you want when you like because you think you know better than the rest of us. I'm sure that's not the intention, but that's how it comes across to someone like myself who has seen this all to many times before while sitting around on the forums. It's not that at all. I'm trying very hard to write up a proper policy thread for people to read and get people to understand IA a little better, but it's hard to do when every word I type is being put under scrutiny by operators, admins, execs and everyone else not mentioned. The goal here is to build a platform for others to communicate with in order to address situations immediately and get shit done rather than sit on them and pretend they don't exist. You guys will know exactly what permissions and responsibilities the IA team will have in a following thread soon. I don't think i'm better than any of you. I don't think this is just a superiority complex either. For all I care, I could leave TF and watch it burn should the community decide IA is unnecessary. It's a win-win for me, because I could continue doing my job and train people in IA proper conflict resolution while working with an organized team to address big issues we need outside perspectives on, or IA gets dismantled for whatever reason but continues to incite self policing behavior and proper "administrator ethics". Regardless of the outcome, we've already made our short yet hopefully long lived mark. Formalities aside; TF is fuckin dank and toxic as shit bruv. If we can help safeguard TF from this unnecessary bullshit within a week instead of six months, then we'll do our job accordingly. This includes creating a file and pursuing a full investigation on all parties involved; concluding with unbiased judgement from handpicked people I barely know personally, but know their server track record extensively.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 23:54:05 GMT
Just to clarify something: IA will be operating under it's own "entity" meaning it's going to be it's own thing, working closely with the Admin Officer and me. If any abuse were to come from the Admin Officer, then the IA would report it directly to me where I will take appropriate actions necessary to deal with the abuse. If the IA team were to become abusive, either report to the Admin Officer or to me and either me or the Admin Officer will deal with it. This means there's sort of a system of checks and balances between both the IA and the Admin Officer.
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