elmon
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fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on May 16, 2020 21:07:03 GMT
That's not how it works, the assistant temporarily partially assumes the role of the exec until a new one is elected. Assuming that in all cases a vote is mandatory I'd agree that having the 2nd most popular person automatically 'offered' the assistant role with the option to refuse would be good, and then if there ends up being an assistants vacancy then it's just down to do we want that voted in, or the exec to pick the role. Personally I'm not fussed either way. I just don't want a scenario where someone can be 'offered' an assistants role, and then said assistant automatically being promoted without a vote but it sounds like that doesn't happen anyway for the most part. Correction: Nowhere on this thread does it state IA is an executive role totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/66359/internal-affairs-information-read however the power they have is that of an executive in my eyes. Apologies for this the confusion for this rises as ZevANTe is listed as "Assistant Admin Officer / Internal Affairs" and has the assistant executive role on discord and in game I believe (I am unsure of whether it is an executive role or not myself at the moment). Anyway, this is derailing the thread so there is no point in further discussing this on here.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 21:17:58 GMT
Assuming that in all cases a vote is mandatory I'd agree that having the 2nd most popular person automatically 'offered' the assistant role with the option to refuse would be good, and then if there ends up being an assistants vacancy then it's just down to do we want that voted in, or the exec to pick the role. Personally I'm not fussed either way. I just don't want a scenario where someone can be 'offered' an assistants role, and then said assistant automatically being promoted without a vote but it sounds like that doesn't happen anyway for the most part. Correction: Nowhere on this thread does it state IA is an executive role totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/66359/internal-affairs-information-read however the power they have is that of an executive in my eyes. Apologies for this the confusion for this rises as ZevANTe is listed as "Assistant Admin Officer / Internal Affairs" and has the assistant executive role on discord and in game I believe (I am unsure of whether it is an executive role or not myself at the moment). Anyway, this is derailing the thread so there is no point in further discussing this on here. Okay that makes far more sense. So my argument in this is the conflict exists that he is an executive assistant, and how could he impartially investigate himself or the executive he works for. Though that's for a different thread I think. Thanks for clarifying, that makes a lot more sense.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 0:29:37 GMT
I've been meaning to create a formal thread about IA and how the staff process works for that. It'll probably take more time, but I do have a draft ready for it. As for clarification; SKS WAS co-directing IA with me, but now i'll have to find a new lead in due time because of their recent promotion to Admin Officer. Assistant Admin Officer will likely be completely replaced by IA once policies are completely written up to warrant the complete replacement of assistant officer.
For IA, I don't agree with having a polling/election process. I guess this isn't very democratic of me to say, but I would hope that the community would support my decision for this considering how multi-faceted the nature of IA's functions are. Also yadda yadda polls yadda yadda bias yadda yadda friends voting for friends. I'll refine and announce proper criteria applying for a spot under IA, but I don't like the idea of working with a community selected admin who needs to essentially campaign and convince others for their position. I definitely think a high degree of trust needs to be held within IA; which also includes being more public about our activities.
Now obviously we can't really discuss the nitty gritty of our job publicly due to the subject of work we're dealing with from time to time, but we'll always be public about any actions that were required by IA in regards of TotalFreedom. We won't obfuscate any pertinent information regarding administrator actions. I'd like to maintain a modicum of privacy for IA, especially when recruiting more "helpers" for our division or when an ongoing case is in the works. In regards to staffing, you guys just have to trust me in selection processes and IA infrastructure. Better that one experienced person with "power" lead an information based team with no power other than the power of neutral judgement and outside perspective.
Anyways beyond that; I'll try to clarify more about IA in an upcoming thread. Super long story short; anyone that works under IA reports to the IA lead(s); in which they report to both the current Admin Officer and Server Owner. Nobody in IA besides me has actual "executive" powers so to speak, and the people I pick to work under IA are people I spend half a week extensively researching before concluding eligibility for a spot. I'd say my biggest power working as director for IA is that I can communicate with operators all the way up to the acting Server Owner at any time about ongoing server issues (both social and infrastructure) while also having the ability to remove anyone in power should an EXTENSIVE case be built for them by the IA team. Everyone's opinions matter to me and my team, and we favor nobody regardless of position.
Edit: Basically anyone who works under IA that isn't a lead is just a senior administrator with a slightly different job focus and additional responsibilities, like actually caring about what people say on the server including forums and discord. IA operates on a separate entity, and works under a primary lead. Primary leads like me and formerly SKS would basically have "executive" power, but I don't like calling it "executive" when all I really do is organize and manage a file system for ongoing TF conflicts and infrastructure preparation. I don't prance around on the server looking for people to ban; I just be quiet and observe until IA is needed again. The "executive power" I retain is only there in the event that higherups become corrupt again and the people need IA to purge them. It's exclusive to the acting leads of IA, which is currently only me at the moment.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on May 17, 2020 0:36:37 GMT
Im going to go against forcing the Executive to pick an assistant. (haha bias amirite)
Honestly I dont need an assistant. Most of the work revolved around rewriting policies which I've already done. If there's admin conduct concerns the IA will assist me in that.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 0:45:55 GMT
Im going to go against forcing the Executive to pick an assistant. (haha bias amirite) Honestly I dont need an assistant. Most of the work revolved around rewriting policies which I've already done. If there's admin conduct concerns the IA will assist me in that. No part of the policy says about forcing an assistant to be picked. It says there can be up to 2 assistants (as is shown with there being 2 assistants for an executive position right now, not Admin Officer), but one assistant will be whoever won in 2nd place if they decide to accept such position to prevent the parts of the community that voted for them from being disenfranchised. I also thought there is no assistant admin officer anymore and instead it's just internal affairs?
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on May 17, 2020 0:54:40 GMT
Im going to go against forcing the Executive to pick an assistant. (haha bias amirite) Honestly I dont need an assistant. Most of the work revolved around rewriting policies which I've already done. If there's admin conduct concerns the IA will assist me in that. No part of the policy says about forcing an assistant to be picked. It says there can be up to 2 assistants (as is shown with there being 2 assistants for an executive position right now, not Admin Officer), but one assistant will be whoever won in 2nd place if they decide to accept such position to prevent the parts of the community that voted for them from being disenfranchised. I also thought there is no assistant admin officer anymore and instead it's just internal affairs? Regardless if its forced or not, I dont need one. It would be a completely useless position (theoretically.) Now in reality technically theres still an assistant admin officer rank, but IA will likely just take its place, because theres no reason for an assistant position.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 0:59:46 GMT
No part of the policy says about forcing an assistant to be picked. It says there can be up to 2 assistants (as is shown with there being 2 assistants for an executive position right now, not Admin Officer), but one assistant will be whoever won in 2nd place if they decide to accept such position to prevent the parts of the community that voted for them from being disenfranchised. I also thought there is no assistant admin officer anymore and instead it's just internal affairs? Regardless if its forced or not, I dont need one. It would be a completely useless position (theoretically.) Now in reality technically theres still an assistant admin officer rank, but IA will likely just take its place, because theres no reason for an assistant position. This suggestion would in effect make all admin officer positions Internal Affairs members, if that's not how that works then I sure am confused because that's what the roster makes it seem like. I wouldn't know how to update this suggestion otherwise.
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on May 17, 2020 1:00:14 GMT
that's not how that works, sure, more people will be satisfied, but think about this. if someone where to get the most votes and get eao but they knew that they didn't work well with the runner up, would they want the runner up as their assistant. no, they would not. a group that doesn't work well together is most likely going to accomplish little to nothing, the eao should have some if not all, say in who gets to be their aeao
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 17, 2020 1:03:58 GMT
that's not how that works, sure, more people will be satisfied, but think about this. if someone where to get the most votes and get eao but they knew that they didn't work well with the runner up, would they want the runner up as their assistant. no, they would not. a group that doesn't work well together is most likely going to accomplish little to nothing, the eao should have some if not all, say in who gets to be their aeao I already updated the thread for that. The EAO can pick an assistant themselves if the position is not taken.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on May 17, 2020 10:25:11 GMT
Basically anyone who works under IA that isn't a lead is just a senior administrator with a slightly different job focus and additional responsibilities, like actually caring about what people say on the server including forums and discord. How does this work with forum permissions? I saw some access to the forum logs being given out already, and I don't have a problem with that, but it would be nice to know who will get access to what aside from the "executive" part.
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
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Post by Wild1145 on May 17, 2020 10:35:55 GMT
Assistant Admin Officer will likely be completely replaced by IA once policies are completely written up to warrant the complete replacement of assistant officer. Why? Surely they are two independent roles that should be maintained as such? Feels quite inappropriate for an 'IA' Team to be interfering with the day-to-day running of the server... For IA, I don't agree with having a polling/election process. I guess this isn't very democratic of me to say, but I would hope that the community would support my decision for this considering how multi-faceted the nature of IA's functions are. Also yadda yadda polls yadda yadda bias yadda yadda friends voting for friends. I'll refine and announce proper criteria applying for a spot under IA, but I don't like the idea of working with a community selected admin who needs to essentially campaign and convince others for their position. I definitely think a high degree of trust needs to be held within IA; which also includes being more public about our activities. Frankly it sounds like we're already in dangerous waters, and making it so only people in IA can pick new members, makes it sound more like a cross between an old boys club and the secret police... Personally not the sort of image I'd like but hey ho, that's my 2 cent. I think there needs to be a lot more transparency before people are going to trust what you're doing to want to empower you with that sort of control... in which they report to both the current Admin Officer Why would anyone be reporting to the admin officer? Surely that creates another one of these messes where what if the admin officer is the one being investigated? I don't see why you're not reporting to whoever is 'Running' IA and the server owner... Shouldn't need to be anyone else in the mix other than to make them feel all giddy. Nobody in IA besides me has actual "executive" powers so to speak I don't see why anyone 'Needs' those powers at all. Surely all you should be doing is making recommendations back to the Executive Admin office or Server owner, Don't think it's your place to be judge jury and executioner... How does this work with forum permissions? I saw some access to the forum logs being given out already, and I don't have a problem with that, but it would be nice to know who will get access to what aside from the "executive" part. I think this is something that needs to be transparent. I've already heard rumours (with evidence) of a number of 'Random' people being granted additional access to the forums... None of which was transparent, and at first glance looks like a blatant abuse of power and trust... The rules on this sort of access need to be clearly defined with 'Rules of engagement' as it were clearly agreed by the community, and not just those who benefit from the access.
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Post by ???DaddyIndica on May 17, 2020 13:14:28 GMT
a block game compared to a presidential vote vouch anyway No, that's not relevant in this case because it's in the context of a vote, so what I said was a relevant example. Even though this is not how it happens anymore, that is how the election system worked. Unfortunately, Thomas Jefferson is a good wild goose and decided to change that because his Vice President would’ve been his enemy.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 21:39:56 GMT
Basically anyone who works under IA that isn't a lead is just a senior administrator with a slightly different job focus and additional responsibilities, like actually caring about what people say on the server including forums and discord. How does this work with forum permissions? I saw some access to the forum logs being given out already, and I don't have a problem with that, but it would be nice to know who will get access to what aside from the "executive" part. Forum perms should only be given to leads right now, so I have no idea what you're talking about Edit: When IA was established, forum perms were only given to me and SKS so i'm not sure who you'd be referring to.
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Post by zevante on May 17, 2020 21:42:10 GMT
I don't see why anyone 'Needs' those powers at all. Surely all you should be doing is making recommendations back to the Executive Admin office or Server owner, Don't think it's your place to be judge jury and executioner... Never said I was the judge and jury, and literally nobody has additional powers besides me in the event that a higher exec like a dev or owner goes rogue. If I had absolutely no power other than IA's collective unbiased opinion on judgement calls, then IA could be completely dismantled by anybody that wants to conspire against TF. You're also taking a lot of what i'm saying out of context and automatically implying we're some corrupt squad of admins that wanna do whatever the fuck we please. That isn't the case, so please don't try to gaslight this thread. Also assistant admin officer is literally fucking useless. Just my two cents though. IA actually does shit, like address that LightUK issue while also removing lemon because the community demanded immediate action; in which we followed suit. Stop trying to treat IA like we're the enemy when we've already been established and are doing far more work than any "assistant admin officer" has ever done. The point is we actually have the power to stand up against corrupt fuckmins that can and will be utilized by the community; not commanded by people in power.
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
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Post by Wild1145 on May 17, 2020 21:49:33 GMT
I don't see why anyone 'Needs' those powers at all. Surely all you should be doing is making recommendations back to the Executive Admin office or Server owner, Don't think it's your place to be judge jury and executioner... Never said I was the judge and jury, and literally nobody has additional powers besides me in the event that a higher exec like a dev or owner goes rogue. If I had absolutely no power other than IA's collective unbiased opinion on judgement calls, then IA could be completely dismantled by anybody that wants to conspire against TF. You're also taking a lot of what i'm saying out of context and automatically implying we're some corrupt squad of admins that wanna do whatever the fuck we please. That isn't the case, so please don't try to gaslight this thread. If that's not the case why do you, or anyone else in IA feel the need to have such powers? If Seth feels it's of value, then he should be able to protect it from any such dismantling. I've spoken out about it's creation, and think it's an absolutely horrific idea, but the majority disagreed and that's fine, but right now it's come across like you can basically do what you want and nobody can hold you to account because we don't know or have any involvement in who half the people in the process are. I fail to see a reason you or anyone else in IA should hold executive privileges, and as I've said, I think if it's going to be run, it should be run in such a way that is isolated from the standard chain of command, rather than sitting in it, otherwise it just enables far less transparency and we end up with conflicts like I've said before. I'm taking what you've said in the context it's coming across and I'm understanding it, and I'm not going to roll over and be quiet about it because you or somebody else doesn't like it, frankly my view still stands that this is an irrelevant 'Division' and there certainly feels like there's little to no accountability, with seemingly a lot of privileges that have been assigned in ways I'd define as 'Sketch' Edit because you replied and I missed that on my reply. Not disagreeing that the assistant admin office is useless in terms of a position, but I disagree that you or anyone on IA should ever hold it at the same time as doing your role. I will continue to treat IA like the enemy I believe it is, because I think it's a cancer to this server, it encourages the behavior I don't think we should endorse where frankly everyone always has to be looking behind their back in-case someone decides to fuck them over if they have a lapse of judgement... If the decision is there will no longer be an assistant admin office, that is very very different to you or anyone in IA taking on that role and I think that is my key point here, you, nor anyone on your staff should hold an executive position, and to do so would be a blatant conflict of interest.
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