elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on May 31, 2020 19:58:10 GMT
I don't see a case of admin abuse here. From what I can see, Internal Affairs has no reason to do anything. This is entirely up to Seth, if he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't have to at the end of the day. " - Main TF’s community values" Yes, in cases of admin abuse, admin disputes or other things such as mental health issues. From what I can see this doesn't fall under the scope of IA. "Our main responsibilities are as follows: - Maintain Total Freedom's Public Relations - Investigate cases of admin abuse - Help staff members overloaded with work - Act directly with executive admins - Purge badmins and sadmins - Not be an uptight fuckwad that likes to toss around power to satisfy petty god complexes"
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on May 31, 2020 20:02:39 GMT
So are we just ignoring 72% of people that’s wrong, not everyone has voted on the poll and this doesn’t even come close to the amount of regular players, on average we have more than 582 regular players who play almost every day for at least 2 hours if not more, there are only 48 votes on this poll, that is not 72%, if this is as important as you make it out to be, we aren't showing nearly enough of the community for this
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miwo
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Post by miwo on May 31, 2020 20:09:27 GMT
So are we just ignoring 72% of people that’s wrong, not everyone has voted on the poll and this doesn’t even come close to the amount of regular players, on average we have more than 582 regular players who play almost every day for at least 2 hours if not more, there are only 48 votes on this poll, that is not 72%, if this is as important as you make it out to be, we aren't showing nearly enough of the community for this Great logic right there lmao
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 31, 2020 20:21:23 GMT
So are we just ignoring 72% of people that’s wrong, not everyone has voted on the poll and this doesn’t even come close to the amount of regular players, on average we have more than 582 regular players who play almost every day for at least 2 hours if not more, there are only 48 votes on this poll, that is not 72%, if this is as important as you make it out to be, we aren't showing nearly enough of the community for this I have seen a lot of polls on this forum and the biggest ones I have ever seen haven't gotten more than somewhat over 50 people, this poll is one of the highest you see on these forums. Saying not enough people have voted on this poll is needless concern trolling.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 31, 2020 20:21:52 GMT
" - Main TF’s community values" Yes, in cases of admin abuse, admin disputes or other things such as mental health issues. From what I can see this doesn't fall under the scope of IA. "Our main responsibilities are as follows: - Maintain Total Freedom's Public Relations - Investigate cases of admin abuse - Help staff members overloaded with work - Act directly with executive admins - Purge badmins and sadmins - Not be an uptight fuckwad that likes to toss around power to satisfy petty god complexes" So this has nothing to do with public relations?
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on May 31, 2020 20:26:32 GMT
Yes, in cases of admin abuse, admin disputes or other things such as mental health issues. From what I can see this doesn't fall under the scope of IA. "Our main responsibilities are as follows: - Maintain Total Freedom's Public Relations - Investigate cases of admin abuse - Help staff members overloaded with work - Act directly with executive admins - Purge badmins and sadmins - Not be an uptight fuckwad that likes to toss around power to satisfy petty god complexes" So this has nothing to do with public relations? In what way does this affect Total Freedom's public relations? The only way I can see this affecting PR is through the sheer amount of unnecessary drama caused on the forums. The issue has clearly been seen by Seth and basically everyone else that uses the forum, there is no point to constantly bumping it, all it's going to do is cause further drama.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 31, 2020 20:31:51 GMT
So this has nothing to do with public relations? In what way does this affect Total Freedom's public relations? The only way I can see this affecting PR is through the sheer amount of unnecessary drama caused on the forums. The issue has clearly been seen by Seth and basically everyone else that uses the forum, there is no point to constantly bumping it, all it's going to do is cause further drama. So just because you categorize it under the buzz word "drama", makes it something that doesn't put the community in jeopardy. I don't see why this is an issue that should just be laid to rest and ignored when it's a matter that needs to be resolved.
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elmon
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fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on May 31, 2020 20:41:30 GMT
In what way does this affect Total Freedom's public relations? The only way I can see this affecting PR is through the sheer amount of unnecessary drama caused on the forums. The issue has clearly been seen by Seth and basically everyone else that uses the forum, there is no point to constantly bumping it, all it's going to do is cause further drama. So just because you categorize it under the buzz word "drama", makes it something that doesn't put the community in jeopardy. I don't see why this is an issue that should just be laid to rest and ignored when it's a matter that needs to be resolved. Regardless of whether I think it needs to be resolved, IA shouldn't be involved and constantly bumping it is really annoying and I'm pretty sure Seth gets message by now. I can't speak for him but I assume he doesn't want to implement it which is why it hasn't been implemented yet. You are just going to have to deal with it because he pays for the server and not you. He gets to choose whether to take community advice into account or not.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 31, 2020 20:57:47 GMT
So just because you categorize it under the buzz word "drama", makes it something that doesn't put the community in jeopardy. I don't see why this is an issue that should just be laid to rest and ignored when it's a matter that needs to be resolved. Regardless of whether I think it needs to be resolved, IA shouldn't be involved and constantly bumping it is really annoying and I'm pretty sure Seth gets message by now. I can't speak for him but I assume he doesn't want to implement it which is why it hasn't been implemented yet. You are just going to have to deal with it because he pays for the server and not you. He gets to choose whether to take community advice into account or not. The advice is that we don't want power struggles and pandemonium if an emergency were to occur. Seth's thread leaves this community without an owner for 2 months. The best part is that to the extent that free speech exists on this forum, nothing is stopping me from communicating my issues with this and clearly 73% of people here agree with that. My way of dealing with it is to continue to do so.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jun 1, 2020 6:00:39 GMT
At which point his legitimacy as owner will be called in to question. An overwhelming majority called for this to happen, because he didn't have the communities support to remove it in the first place... Even if it did matter, you don't even have 3/4ths of the communities support. Seth is a legitimate owner because he pays for the stinkin' server, and is its only developer. No policy written by ex-staff will ever "de-legitimize" him. Sorry not sorry mate. I don't need a long reply to this either, it's an indisputable fact. Cheers I don't need 3/4 of the servers support because there appears to no longer be a policy that is recognised that empowered his ownership... I don't need to write a long reply, because the policy that made him owner and that requires that 3/4 support you and Seth (And not really anyone else) seem to claim isn't a thing and wasn't ever a thing. I didn't write the policy FYI, I was just one of the people who critiqued it along with most of the community. And for what it's worth, I could pay for the server and develop it, but that doesn't make me it's owner...
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jun 1, 2020 6:03:05 GMT
constantly bumping it is really annoying It's almost like that's part of the point. If only the thread was actioned like we've been asking and then we wouldn't need to bump it......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 6:21:48 GMT
Even if it did matter, you don't even have 3/4ths of the communities support. Seth is a legitimate owner because he pays for the stinkin' server, and is its only developer. No policy written by ex-staff will ever "de-legitimize" him. Sorry not sorry mate. I don't need a long reply to this either, it's an indisputable fact. Cheers I don't need 3/4 of the servers support because there appears to no longer be a policy that is recognised that empowered his ownership... I don't need to write a long reply, because the policy that made him owner and that requires that 3/4 support you and Seth (And not really anyone else) seem to claim isn't a thing and wasn't ever a thing. I didn't write the policy FYI, I was just one of the people who critiqued it along with most of the community. And for what it's worth, I could pay for the server and develop it, but that doesn't make me it's owner... Seth is owner, he is the owner of this server. Seth owns TotalFreedom. Miriam Webster defines the word "Owner" as the following: : one who has the legal or rightful title to something : one to whom property belongs Seth was given the title of Owner legitimately, now that he has the legal right to TF, no amount of bumping re-uploaded policies can change that. The same document that transitioned him into power is sitting in the trash can where it belongs. We DO NOT need it, we have an owner. Sure, if by God's mercy Seth and all his loved ones perish, we have a proper policy by all accords to get the domain and server to a new set of hands. You can chirp this transfer protocol all you want, but it's not ineffective by any means. Sure, it's not written in fancy English, but that doesn't make it any less effective. Leaving your owner transfership document to lay around in public view makes it seem as though the position of owner is temporary. Point blank period. This document is not needed. Exaggerating the 1 in an unfathomably large chance Seth, let alone, the rest of his family, becomes incapacitated can't hide that cold hard fact. Not to mention, your transfership policy is subject to the same casualty chances as the one currently in place, rendering your reason for having this policy in-place... get this... useless. Tl;dr Their entire reasoning for replacing Seth's transfer policy relies on the same nonevents as the one in place... Rendering it completely useless. The only difference between their policy and the one in place is the fact that their policy also has a line that has 0 relevance to transferring the position of owner if Seth became incapacitated. This "coincidental" magical line allows the community to coup Seth's power with a majority. And no, I am not exaggerating.
This policy will remain in the trash where it belongs. No amount of bumps from the same 2 people will change that.
I'm requesting for this thread to be locked, thank you and goodnight.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jun 1, 2020 7:23:27 GMT
I don't need 3/4 of the servers support because there appears to no longer be a policy that is recognised that empowered his ownership... I don't need to write a long reply, because the policy that made him owner and that requires that 3/4 support you and Seth (And not really anyone else) seem to claim isn't a thing and wasn't ever a thing. I didn't write the policy FYI, I was just one of the people who critiqued it along with most of the community. And for what it's worth, I could pay for the server and develop it, but that doesn't make me it's owner... Seth is owner, he is the owner of this server. Seth owns TotalFreedom. Miriam Webster defines the word "Owner" as the following: : one who has the legal or rightful title to something : one to whom property belongs Seth was given the title of Owner legitimately, now that he has the legal right to TF, no amount of bumping re-uploaded policies can change that. The same document that transitioned him into power is sitting in the trash can where it belongs. We DO NOT need it, we have an owner. Sure, if by God's mercy Seth and all his loved ones perish, we have a proper policy by all accords to get the domain and server to a new set of hands. You can chirp this transfer protocol all you want, but it's not ineffective by any means. Sure, it's not written in fancy English, but that doesn't make it any less effective. Leaving your owner transfership document to lay around in public view makes it seem as though the position of owner is temporary. Point blank period. This document is not needed. Exaggerating the 1 in an unfathomably large chance Seth, let alone, the rest of his family, becomes incapacitated can't hide that cold hard fact. Not to mention, your transfership policy is subject to the same casualty chances as the one currently in place, rendering your reason for having this policy in-place... get this... useless. Tl;dr Their entire reasoning for replacing Seth's transfer policy relies on the same nonevents as the one in place... Rendering it completely useless. The only difference between their policy and the one in place is the fact that their policy also has a line that has 0 relevance to transferring the position of owner if Seth became incapacitated. This "coincidental" magical line allows the community to coup Seth's power with a majority. And no, I am not exaggerating.
This policy will remain in the trash where it belongs. No amount of bumps from the same 2 people will change that.
I'm requesting for this thread to be locked, thank you and goodnight.
What is the "legal right" you are speaking of? He has a specific role on the forum which Finest owns, Mark gave him access to the domain, and he owns a server from a hosting company which apparently isn't being paid by him anymore? (I've heard donations cover it, I've heard you have spent hundreds of dollars to cover it, I've heard Ivan has covered it, who even pays for it anymore?). Speaking to real life, you can say that Seth owns (more accurately renting) the physical server, but that doesn't necessarily make him the owner. We had an ownership policy which recognized him as the owner, but now that it's gone, technically Windows could be the owner right now. It's ambiguous. But no, without that policy, there is no such thing as a "legal right" and you're basically just making that up out of thin air. "The same document that transitioned him into power is sitting in the trash can where it belongs. We DO NOT need it, we have an owner." You literally say this right after a sentence in which you state that he has a "legal right" to Total Freedom. This is equivalent to saying that while the U.S. Constitution defines presidency, we can just legally abolish the constitution and it won't matter because we have a president. The policy you are supporting would leave this community without an owner for 2 months and lacks very important provisions, but I'm glad you are so proactively sure of its effectiveness. You then make the point that a transfership policy shouldn't be in public view and is not needed which contradicts the points you made just before about the new one being effective. The point you make about the chances being the same in both policies makes the original policy useless is just wrong, not much to say there. You put quotes around "coincidental" as if mibbzz and Hockey, despite literally creating the policy in support of Seth becoming owner, were also simultaneously trying to plot his demise. A conspiracy theory so deranged that again, as I've stated before, I can't believe you even bring it up. I'm glad you declare that the policy will remain in the trash, but it is pretty awful that the Server Liaison is in support of ignoring almost 3/4 of what the community wants. If the thread is locked, then a new one will be made. Good to see that you don't support the ability for the community to voice their opinions either.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 1, 2020 7:29:34 GMT
Seth is a legitimate owner because he pays for the stinkin' server Shouldn't you be the owner according to this logic? Because you have "literally" paid $600 dollars for its development. Can we still see the reciept on this transaction? Seth is owner, he is the owner of this server. Seth owns TotalFreedom. Miriam Webster defines the word "Owner" as the following: : one who has the legal or rightful title to something : one to whom property belongs Key word: rightful - we are literally arguing that he is not the rightful owner if he was to remove the thing that gives him 'rightful' title. Can you please just start reading our posts instead of nonchalantly glossing over them and regurtitating your exact same talking points? It's obvious that you're getting salty it is not going your way when you now say that "72% of the community support is apparently not a majority. I'm requesting for this thread to be locked, thank you and goodnight. Surely a healthy way to end this discussion. There has existed no flame wars in this thread, nor has the issue been resolved. I or any of the others involved will then promptly remake this thread if it were to be censored. Cheers!
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jun 1, 2020 8:51:31 GMT
I don't really have much to say beyond that of Polaris Seltzeris - But will make a couple of points. - For not wanting a long response, you managed to really drag out the same point you've made umpteen times before, which is no more valid now than it was then. - The current 'policy' is still utterly inadequate and has nowhere near the detail as the old one, it's not 'One Line' missing, it's quite a lot of other things that were properly thought out and are now missing. It disappoints me that Seth is seemingly not too bothered about this, but it disappoints me more that an executive of the server is trying to dictate how things work and trying to power play to make themselves feel big and special. The reality is 3/4 of those who voted disagree with you, and are asking the policy be re-instated, and that's all we want, the will of the community to be fulfilled.
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