Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 21:28:49 GMT
This is the last thing I'll say, since you guys clearly don't head my advice. Seth will not be posting the policy in its current version. I wouldn't either if I was in that position. Why would anyone in the right mind post a policy with a line that effectively de-legitimizes your power indefinitely. The fact that you're all surprised it got deleted is hilarious. If you want this policy to be put into place for "safety and longevity reasons", remove that line, and then try again. I'm sorry, but in its current state, it'd take a clueless owner to fall for it. How about we hear this through Seth's own words instead of yours? You're literally saying that the very thing which put Seth in power and legitimizes his position is de-legitimizing him, a contradicting non-problem that you literally made up out of nowhere. I am surprised it got deleted because it's what legitimizes his power. Go with the compromise I proposed of going off of a draft of it then modifying it instead of ignoring community votes. Seth was legitimatized by the community, not by way of your document. You can call me by all the names in the book, but it doesn't change the fact that your fundamental argument is just flat out wrong. Seth is the owner, and as owner, he by definition owns the server. This is not a pure democracy, or else we'd have tyrants like you turn this server into TotalBullshit. Seth is not dead, nor incapacitated. Even if either of those two things became true, we have a working policy to fill the indefinite gap. Your justification for the urgency of this document makes absolutely no sense. Creating what ifs to legitimize a document that "coincidentally" has 3 lines about how it is in the majority faction of this communities power to demote Seth. In its current state, the document is a failed attempt. Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better. As I've said before, we play Minecraft, but we aren't blockheaded for gods sake. It also surprises me you guys haven't created a post getting community feedback on it yet? You just want Seth to post it so it looks legitimate, even though it's about as legitimate as a 12 year old using his moms credit card to buy in-app purchases. P.S. It may help your case of legitimacy slightly if any of you have played the server since 2017. Warm regards, once more, Wize alphafoxtrot
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JagWire
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Post by JagWire on May 21, 2020 21:50:10 GMT
Even if either of those two things became true, we have a working policy to fill the indefinite gap. Uhh, no we don't because that is the entire point of the thread! Your justification for the urgency of this document makes absolutely no sense. Creating what ifs to legitimize a document that "coincidentally" has 3 lines about how it is in the majority faction of this communities power to demote Seth. Once again, the policy isn't designed to remove someone from power for shits and giggles. It is to re-gain control of the server, if the owner is no longer able to fufill their duties. In Windows case they had disappeared, we had no contacts for them, and as a result someone had to take charge. It is a fact of life, it could happen that seth disappears or dies unexpectedly. Unlikely, sure but we need this policy in place or else it will turn to shit.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 21, 2020 21:50:32 GMT
How about we hear this through Seth's own words instead of yours? You're literally saying that the very thing which put Seth in power and legitimizes his position is de-legitimizing him, a contradicting non-problem that you literally made up out of nowhere. I am surprised it got deleted because it's what legitimizes his power. Go with the compromise I proposed of going off of a draft of it then modifying it instead of ignoring community votes. Seth was legitimatized by the community, not by way of your document. You can call me by all the names in the book, but it doesn't change the fact that your fundamental argument is just flat out wrong. Seth is the owner, and as owner, he by definition owns the server. This is not a pure democracy, or else we'd have tyrants like you turn this server into TotalBullshit. Seth is not dead, nor incapacitated. Even if either of those two things became true, we have a working policy to fill the indefinite gap. Your justification for the urgency of this document makes absolutely no sense. Creating what ifs to legitimize a document that "coincidentally" has 3 lines about how it is in the majority faction of this communities power to demote Seth. In its current state, the document is a failed attempt. Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better. As I've said before, we play Minecraft, but we aren't blockheaded for gods sake. It also surprises me you guys haven't created a post getting community feedback on it yet? You just want Seth to post it so it looks legitimate, even though it's about as legitimate as a 12 year old using his moms credit card to buy in-app purchases. P.S. It may help your case of legitimacy slightly if any of you have played the server since 2017. Warm regards, once more, Wize alphafoxtrot Calling me a tyrant might actually be the most hilarious insult I have ever received on these forums by far. If you push for more freedom for players and policies supported by community votes without having any admin role here yourself, you're a damn tyrant. The "working policy" (how is it working?) you cited would leave the server without an owner for 2 months. For context, once the original policy was put into place, the process of electing Seth to owner was a brief period of time, even less than a week if I recall correctly. The total span of time in which there was no owner was barely even a month if I recall correctly, and in that time there were numerous controversies and worries that some sort of coup would take play before the policy would be enacted. Now, this policy would leave the server without an owner for 2 months in a vague process with no provisions on what actually happens during that period aside from the voting, how likely is that going to work out? "The document is a failed attempt," you keep stating this when the only time the policy was enforced, it was enforced to absolute fruition and Seth was elected as owner. Stop saying things that are just not true at all in any conceivable way. What is "the agenda" here? You make it seem like there's a CIA black ops plot going on here when the policy was written by mibbzz and Hockey in defense of Seth's position, I don't think they were planning on a regime change mission to remove Seth before he was even made the owner? The thread receiving community feedback is this one, where you can clearly see posts of people disagreeing with you as well as a poll with 70% of people disagreeing with you.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on May 21, 2020 22:13:49 GMT
How about we hear this through Seth's own words instead of yours? You're literally saying that the very thing which put Seth in power and legitimizes his position is de-legitimizing him, a contradicting non-problem that you literally made up out of nowhere. I am surprised it got deleted because it's what legitimizes his power. Go with the compromise I proposed of going off of a draft of it then modifying it instead of ignoring community votes. Seth was legitimatized by the community, not by way of your document. You can call me by all the names in the book, but it doesn't change the fact that your fundamental argument is just flat out wrong. Seth is the owner, and as owner, he by definition owns the server. This is not a pure democracy, or else we'd have tyrants like you turn this server into TotalBullshit. Seth is not dead, nor incapacitated. Even if either of those two things became true, we have a working policy to fill the indefinite gap. Your justification for the urgency of this document makes absolutely no sense. Creating what ifs to legitimize a document that "coincidentally" has 3 lines about how it is in the majority faction of this communities power to demote Seth. In its current state, the document is a failed attempt. Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better. As I've said before, we play Minecraft, but we aren't blockheaded for gods sake. It also surprises me you guys haven't created a post getting community feedback on it yet? You just want Seth to post it so it looks legitimate, even though it's about as legitimate as a 12 year old using his moms credit card to buy in-app purchases. P.S. It may help your case of legitimacy slightly if any of you have played the server since 2017. Warm regards, once more, Wize alphafoxtrot I really don't see any reasoning behind your condescending remarks throughout this thread other than you lacking the emotional stability to have a civil debate. You taking the victim role ("you can call me by all the names in the book,"), when you are clearly not is what you yourself might deem "hilarious": But no, you keep pushing for this demented version, as if any of us would truly be stupid enough, let alone Seth, to let you roll this policy into place. So, Mr. Wilee, will you remove that phrase? Or does that defeat the entire purpose? Warm Regards, An Active Player on Total Freedom I know you're a good dancer, we've established that It's really just fun to debate with you because you're super into making suggestions for a server you haven't bothered to join since 2017 It's funny, I now get my daily dose of Irony from you, and not my father. I understand you have an agenda to pass, but my god, try a little bit harder. The fact that you're all surprised it got deleted is hilarious. This is not a pure democracy, or else we'd have tyrants like you turn this server into TotalBullshit. Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better. Making these asinine comments only makes people less persuaded to your "agenda" and instead gives the impression of you being arrogant and obstinate. Tough guy, I don't know you realize this, but you keep on regurtitating the same exact moot point over and over again which has already been addressed. Case in point: "Seth was legitimatized by the community, not by way of your document" - apparently you haven't been around since 2017, because if you had, you would know that the old Owner Policy was indeed the document that formally declared Seth as owner - this point has been discussed plenty of times over the past year, and indeed in this thread as well. Perhaps this could be used as a great example of your inherent stubborness to not admit you were wrong - another clear indicator being your mockery of Wilee's inactivity on the ingame server, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and also quite ironic, when you yourself apparently haven't been as active as well in regards to server politics. Read the thread instead of figuratively sticking two index fingers in your ear canals and yelling "Fuck you Wilee, you haven't even played since 2010!!!". As has been continually stated throughout the entirety of this thread: if you nullify the old policy, then you also formally nullify Seth's status as owner. It's very apparent that you're trying to spin this whole conversation away from the fact that the ABOVE POLL has currently resulted in 72% being against the new Owner Policy. There is no harm being done if the Old Owner Policy was to be up for revision - where you would also be able to bitch and moan about "that line" you have such contention with. Also, in regards to "that line" - were you to actually read said document: in order to remove a sitting owner certain strict conditions would have to be met, which would essentially make a "casual overthrowing of the hierarchy" impossible. But again, this all is not factoring in the fact that 72% OF THE CURRENT PLAYERBASE are against this New Owner Policy, so when you say "Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better." you are essentially preaching to 1/5 of the playerbase. Perhaps you shouldn't so nonchalantly use the pronoun when you're clearly in the wrong. If you can't participate in a debate on a MineCraft forum without getting angsty, then perhaps you should stay out of these discussions? Just a thought.
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on May 21, 2020 22:17:05 GMT
Seth litterly said he is not gonna change it, at the end of the day it’s his server, if he wants to have it til he is dead, the so be it, can’t we just lock this
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JagWire
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Post by JagWire on May 21, 2020 22:18:54 GMT
Seth litterly said he is not gonna change it, at the end of the day it’s his server, if he wants to have it til he is dead, the so be it, can’t we just lock this That's called censorship, which will literally cause more problems than it solves. This whole "take it to pm" shit, is not the way forward. If you're wondering why, it's basically silencing the opinion of the community, which is basically a dictatorship. Finally, yes this is Seth's server, but the playerbase, the forums and the original ownership policy is not. (But it is what put them into power)
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 21, 2020 22:19:03 GMT
Seth litterly said he is not gonna change it, at the end of the day it’s his server, if he wants to have it til he is dead, the so be it, can’t we just lock this If it's locked then another thread will just be created. I don't think it would be in his best interest to ignore 72% of the community when a solution has already been provided.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on May 21, 2020 22:20:22 GMT
Seth litterly said he is not gonna change it, at the end of the day it’s his server, if he wants to have it til he is dead, the so be it, can’t we just lock this Did you happen to forget to read the 7 pages of the thread before making this comment? If you remove the old Owner Policy you are formally nullifying Seth's status as owner, meaning it wouldn't be "his server".
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on May 21, 2020 22:26:43 GMT
Seth litterly said he is not gonna change it, at the end of the day it’s his server, if he wants to have it til he is dead, the so be it, can’t we just lock this Did you happen to forget to read the 7 pages of the thread before making this comment? If you remove the old Owner Policy you are formally nullifying Seth's status as owner, meaning it wouldn't be "his server". the old one already was removed tho, it’s still his server he has the passwords he has the accounts, just because a policy is removed doesn’t mean annything that had previously happened with the policy is invalid, that’s just not how that works
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miwo
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Post by miwo on May 21, 2020 22:37:55 GMT
Did you happen to forget to read the 7 pages of the thread before making this comment? If you remove the old Owner Policy you are formally nullifying Seth's status as owner, meaning it wouldn't be "his server". the old one already was removed tho, it’s still his server he has the passwords he has the accounts, just because a policy is removed doesn’t mean annything that had previously happened with the policy is invalid, that’s just not how that works How what works?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 3:34:33 GMT
Seth was legitimatized by the community, not by way of your document. You can call me by all the names in the book, but it doesn't change the fact that your fundamental argument is just flat out wrong. Seth is the owner, and as owner, he by definition owns the server. This is not a pure democracy, or else we'd have tyrants like you turn this server into TotalBullshit. Seth is not dead, nor incapacitated. Even if either of those two things became true, we have a working policy to fill the indefinite gap. Your justification for the urgency of this document makes absolutely no sense. Creating what ifs to legitimize a document that "coincidentally" has 3 lines about how it is in the majority faction of this communities power to demote Seth. In its current state, the document is a failed attempt. Come back stronger, we support you. Make a document that hides your agenda a bit better. As I've said before, we play Minecraft, but we aren't blockheaded for gods sake. It also surprises me you guys haven't created a post getting community feedback on it yet? You just want Seth to post it so it looks legitimate, even though it's about as legitimate as a 12 year old using his moms credit card to buy in-app purchases. P.S. It may help your case of legitimacy slightly if any of you have played the server since 2017. Warm regards, once more, Wize alphafoxtrot You make it seem like there's a CIA black ops plot going on here Precisely.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 22, 2020 3:37:24 GMT
You make it seem like there's a CIA black ops plot going on here Precisely. What else is there to say other than you're wrong?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 4:09:51 GMT
What else is there to say other than you're wrong? "What else is there to say other than you're wrong" The fact that you perceive this as a "right vs. wrong" issue, and not as a crucial matter of sanctity and longevity for the continued growth of this server, continues to prove my point without me having to say a word. Also, now that you seem to be acknowledging my posts, will you answer the one question on everyones mind that you've danced around the last 48 hours? Why have you, for the past 3 years and counting, actively refused to play this server that you apparently care so much about?Answer my question, think long and hard. You've got our entire staff team puzzled.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 22, 2020 4:50:46 GMT
What else is there to say other than you're wrong? "What else is there to say other than you're wrong" The fact that you perceive this as a "right vs. wrong" issue, and not as a crucial matter of sanctity and longevity for the continued growth of this server, continues to prove my point without me having to say a word. Also, now that you seem to be acknowledging my posts, will you answer the one question on everyones mind that you've danced around the last 48 hours? Why have you, for the past 3 years and counting, actively refused to play this server that you apparently care so much about?Answer my question, think long and hard. You've got our entire staff team puzzled. I'm not going to hijack this thread, and it would be great if you stopped trying to hijack it and focused on the actual discussion at hand. All we're asking for is that we bring back the original ownership policy, and I even compromised and said to Seth that he could post it as a draft so that we could all suggest amendments to it so that he would be more comfortable with it. Seth himself has not been posting here, and instead we have you to gaslight and hijack the discussion despite the 70% of people that clearly are not in agreement with your position on this and should therefore stop asserting it and trying to smear everyone disagreeing with you.
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on May 22, 2020 5:47:48 GMT
What else is there to say other than you're wrong? "What else is there to say other than you're wrong" The fact that you perceive this as a "right vs. wrong" issue, and not as a crucial matter of sanctity and longevity for the continued growth of this server, continues to prove my point without me having to say a word. Also, now that you seem to be acknowledging my posts, will you answer the one question on everyones mind that you've danced around the last 48 hours? Why have you, for the past 3 years and counting, actively refused to play this server that you apparently care so much about?Answer my question, think long and hard. You've got our entire staff team puzzled. Speak for yourself, I'm not puzzled at all. Wilee had the same arguments when Mark was owner, he had the same arguments when Windows was owner and he has the same arguments now that Seth is owner. You trying to spin this into some weird conspiratorial bullshit just makes you look actually retarded. Wilee cares about the server for the fact he's been here 10 fucking years, he doesn't want to push some stupid policy to try and remove Seth or whatever bullshit narrative you're trying to push. He wants the policy in place so that if something happens to Seth, and it's needed, then the server can continue for another 10 years. As for your stupid question, I haven't played on the server actively for 5 years. During that time I've had multiple exec roles, I've pushed through very important policies like the one we're even discussing right now, been part of major decisions made, etc. Are you going to sit here and question my intentions now? Wilee has been doing these exact things longer than I have. Let's be super clear, the only reason you're making a deal of this is because a couple of years ago Wilee lost his title while others that were just as inactive as he was kept theirs. If his name had kept its fancy colour people wouldn't bring up this bullshit adhom against him, and if he didn't speak his mind he still would have that fancy coloured name. Your point here is really dumb, and it literally highlights half the bullshit that's plagued this server for the past couple of years, so thanks for that one.
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