Darth
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Post by Darth on Apr 26, 2020 12:27:07 GMT
It doesn’t matter when the incident happened, you wouldn’t get off in a criminal trial because the crime was committed a long time ago. People should still be held accountable.
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square
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Post by square on Apr 26, 2020 13:05:37 GMT
It doesn’t matter when the incident happened, you wouldn’t get off in a criminal trial because the crime was committed a long time ago. People should still be held accountable. actually, yes. in some places there exists a statute of limitations where the court cannot take action after a long period of time (however this may differ in the fact that, for example, the uk is special in that it doesn't have a limitation period above magistrate i.e murder, sexual offences, etc.). so if you were to commit a crime, wait 6 years and they find you guilty: you cannot be arrested or charged for that.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Apr 26, 2020 13:28:43 GMT
It doesn’t matter when the incident happened, you wouldn’t get off in a criminal trial because the crime was committed a long time ago. People should still be held accountable. actually, yes. in some places there exists a statute of limitations where the court cannot take action after a long period of time (however this may differ in the fact that, for example, the uk is special in that it doesn't have a limitation period above magistrate i.e murder, sexual offences, etc.). so if you were to commit a crime, wait 6 years and they find you guilty: you cannot be arrested or charged for that. The point of my post was that people should still be held accountable regardless of time passed, not the varying legal minutiae between countries. If it was something minor, sure, but a coverup of admin abuse with the assistance of an executive is a huge transgression and should not be excused just because a relatively short period of time has passed.
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Lemon
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Post by Lemon on Apr 26, 2020 13:37:19 GMT
i like how literally no one above read my post. LightUk was plotting to overthrow the server's owner at the time the "abuse" happened and we knew at the time, so we were trolling him. Robin also knew, and that's why he deleted the thread. Sure it may be a bit far, but lightuk is permbanned anyway? He's not some regular innocent op? (abuse report thread was created on July 21, same day: imgur.com/a/41t4g2A)
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Apr 26, 2020 15:16:15 GMT
"It didn't even annoy others that I bullied the poor kid in school" i like how literally no one above read my post. LightUk was plotting to overthrow the server's owner at the time the "abuse" happened and we knew at the time, so we were trolling him. Robin also knew, and that's why he deleted the thread. Sure it may be a bit far, but lightuk is permbanned anyway? He's not some regular innocent op? (abuse report thread was created on July 21, same day: imgur.com/a/41t4g2A)If you had all the evidence you needed to ban him, then why didn't you ban him instead of acting in this manner. If you had the evidence to do so, then I don't see an excuse not to. Regardless of your perpsective on your behaviour, it is still against the conduct policy to act this way. Doesn't mean you have to be banned or demoted, but this was indeed trolling. It doesn’t matter when the incident happened, you wouldn’t get off in a criminal trial because the crime was committed a long time ago. People should still be held accountable. actually, yes. in some places there exists a statute of limitations where the court cannot take action after a long period of time (however this may differ in the fact that, for example, the uk is special in that it doesn't have a limitation period above magistrate i.e murder, sexual offences, etc.). so if you were to commit a crime, wait 6 years and they find you guilty: you cannot be arrested or charged for that. If you were to compare this case with a Penal Code of any Western (most Asian) countries, then you would still be punished considering circa half of all Western countries have no limitations on crime, and those that do lie within the range of 5-25 years for similar "crime" (comparing MineCraft bullying to crime lmao) . Already have this on file from a week ago. You're free to discuss this further; although I see no point in doing so when this matter is nearly a year old and has already been discussed and resolved through the executives. Why else do you think Robin is "gone"? :^) Even if this matter has been discussed thoroughly with the Executive team I still think it is appropriate that the playerbase gets included in the discussion (or at least the Admin team).
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square
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Post by square on Apr 26, 2020 16:40:45 GMT
actually, yes. in some places there exists a statute of limitations where the court cannot take action after a long period of time (however this may differ in the fact that, for example, the uk is special in that it doesn't have a limitation period above magistrate i.e murder, sexual offences, etc.). so if you were to commit a crime, wait 6 years and they find you guilty: you cannot be arrested or charged for that. If you were to compare this case with a Penal Code of any Western (most Asian) countries, then you would still be punished considering circa half of all Western countries have no limitations on crime, and those that do lie within the range of 5-25 years for similar "crime" (comparing MineCraft bullying to crime lmao) . hey, i wasn't the one who made the comparison in the first place: he said "you wouldn’t get off in a criminal trial because the crime was committed a long time ago" and i responded that the statute of limitations exists for things such as torts (which some do fit in for this situation). i couldn't really care less about this situation anyways. to what i know: most of the US does have a statute of limitation (quote me if i'm wrong)
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Video
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Post by Video on Apr 26, 2020 16:51:05 GMT
LightUk was plotting to overthrow the server's owner at the time the "abuse" happened and we knew at the time, so we were trolling him. It's okay guys, we can bully them because they were planning on doing something very bad!
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?ZLucky
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lol look at this person
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Post by ?ZLucky on Apr 26, 2020 17:04:28 GMT
There's a LOT going on, and I've tried to catch up with what's happening since I don't have much to do. I feel like I should get my word in, and hopefully I make sense.
1. Addressing what happened I never expected this kind of thing to happen, and I never expected the parties involved to do it. This could all have played out very differently if there was more communication. From what I've seen, the key to admins trusting each other on this server is communication. When things like this go down in secret, we don't trust each other anymore. The only way for the people in charge to maintain a constant state of trust is to keep in touch and make sure everyone is on the same track. That being said, Lemon and Prem should not have done what they did and it should have been handled better in my opinion.
2. What to do about it I've seen a lot of instances where people throw accusations, ask questions later. I'm really glad y'all are taking the time to discuss this, but until this "public statement" or whatever is released to the public, I don't think we should be throwing accusations around. No, I'm not trying to silence anyone. I couldn't even if I wanted to. Also, could we please stop comparing the punishment here to what would have happened if it were a CRIME in another country? It doesn't matter what "would have" happened, all that matters is what you all decide is GOING to happen. I don't have the best judgement on what exactly should happen. I think, just in my opinion, Lemon & Prem should at least admit what they clearly did. It doesn't matter that it happened last year, it still happened and it only came to light now.
3. How I feel I don't know what kind of backlash this post is going to get. I hope no one is rude, I hope that if someone does disagree that we can have a mature conversation about it, I hope to clear up any misunderstandings, and I most certainly would not like to get punished. I'm putting my word out here based on what I have heard and seen, and I'd really like it if people took the time to read this.
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Lemon
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Post by Lemon on Apr 26, 2020 17:48:50 GMT
It's okay guys, we can bully them because they were planning on doing something very bad! LightUk is notorious for attempting to use manipulation, ad-hominems, lying, and blackmail to meet his end goals. In recent conversations I've had with him, he has attempted to sway my opinion towards certain individuals and myself. I'm not going to include every thing he has said to me in this post, but I'll provide some highlights as to what he said. In these conversations, Light denied any and all involvement with the actions Marco was doing. However, this turned out to be a complete lie, as he was absolutely involved with these activities. Denying involvement multiple times: Actually getting involved with Marco's activities (in their Discord server): After I argued with him, he started to talk behind my back, claiming that because I was defending certain individuals, I was "supporting their abusive actions". After learning that I had access to one of his group channels, Light asked Caufas4096 (a moderator of the channel if I recall correctly) to delete the channel in order to erase the message history. Caufas refused, noting that I can use the information within to defend him and Lykhant. Light didn't take this kindly and tried to blackmail him, stating that he would tell someone that he gave logs unless he deleted the chat. Caufas continued to stand his ground and continued to refuse, this time noting that I sent him logs of my Discord DM with Light. Realizing his defeat, Light cut communications with him but not before dropping one last ad-hominem. Sources: - Post Office of Ankh-Morpork - #war-room
- Discord DMs with Catholic_Mario
- Discord DMs with LightUk
- Discord DMs with Caufas4096
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Luke
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Go home to your family, Neo
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Post by Luke on Apr 26, 2020 17:51:32 GMT
It's okay guys, we can bully them because they were planning on doing something very bad! LightUk is notorious for attempting to use manipulation, ad-hominems, lying, and blackmail to meet his end goals. In recent conversations I've had with him, he has attempted to sway my opinion towards certain individuals and myself. I'm not going to include every thing he has said to me in this post, but I'll provide some highlights as to what he said. In these conversations, Light denied any and all involvement with the actions Marco was doing. However, this turned out to be a complete lie, as he was absolutely involved with these activities. Denying involvement multiple times: Actually getting involved with Marco's activities (in their Discord server): After I argued with him, he started to talk behind my back, claiming that because I was defending certain individuals, I was "supporting their abusive actions". After learning that I had access to one of his group channels, Light asked Caufas4096 (a moderator of the channel if I recall correctly) to delete the channel in order to erase the message history. Caufas refused, noting that I can use the information within to defend him and Lykhant. Light didn't take this kindly and tried to blackmail him, stating that he would tell someone that he gave logs unless he deleted the chat. Caufas continued to stand his ground and continued to refuse, this time noting that I sent him logs of my Discord DM with Light. Realizing his defeat, Light cut communications with him but not before dropping one last ad-hominem. Sources: - Post Office of Ankh-Morpork - #war-room
- Discord DMs with Catholic_Mario
- Discord DMs with LightUk
- Discord DMs with Caufas4096
the difference is, video isn't abusing, you did, by the looks of things he was just reporting something, you weren't also how is that bullying lmfao
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speed
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Post by speed on Apr 26, 2020 17:58:21 GMT
It's okay guys, we can bully them because they were planning on doing something very bad! LightUk is notorious for attempting to use manipulation, ad-hominems, lying, and blackmail to meet his end goals. In recent conversations I've had with him, he has attempted to sway my opinion towards certain individuals and myself. I'm not going to include every thing he has said to me in this post, but I'll provide some highlights as to what he said. In these conversations, Light denied any and all involvement with the actions Marco was doing. However, this turned out to be a complete lie, as he was absolutely involved with these activities. Denying involvement multiple times: Actually getting involved with Marco's activities (in their Discord server): After I argued with him, he started to talk behind my back, claiming that because I was defending certain individuals, I was "supporting their abusive actions". After learning that I had access to one of his group channels, Light asked Caufas4096 (a moderator of the channel if I recall correctly) to delete the channel in order to erase the message history. Caufas refused, noting that I can use the information within to defend him and Lykhant. Light didn't take this kindly and tried to blackmail him, stating that he would tell someone that he gave logs unless he deleted the chat. Caufas continued to stand his ground and continued to refuse, this time noting that I sent him logs of my Discord DM with Light. Realizing his defeat, Light cut communications with him but not before dropping one last ad-hominem. Sources: - Post Office of Ankh-Morpork - #war-room
- Discord DMs with Catholic_Mario
- Discord DMs with LightUk
- Discord DMs with Caufas4096
how is that.. bullying lightuk??
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Video
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Old IGN: https://namemc.com/profile/VideoGameSmash12.2, https://namemc.com/profile/videogamesm12.1
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Post by Video on Apr 26, 2020 18:03:22 GMT
It's okay guys, we can bully them because they were planning on doing something very bad! LightUk is notorious for attempting to use manipulation, ad-hominems, lying, and blackmail to meet his end goals. In recent conversations I've had with him, he has attempted to sway my opinion towards certain individuals and myself. I'm not going to include every thing he has said to me in this post, but I'll provide some highlights as to what he said. In these conversations, Light denied any and all involvement with the actions Marco was doing. However, this turned out to be a complete lie, as he was absolutely involved with these activities. Denying involvement multiple times: Actually getting involved with Marco's activities (in their Discord server): After I argued with him, he started to talk behind my back, claiming that because I was defending certain individuals, I was "supporting their abusive actions". After learning that I had access to one of his group channels, Light asked Caufas4096 (a moderator of the channel if I recall correctly) to delete the channel in order to erase the message history. Caufas refused, noting that I can use the information within to defend him and Lykhant. Light didn't take this kindly and tried to blackmail him, stating that he would tell someone that he gave logs unless he deleted the chat. Caufas continued to stand his ground and continued to refuse, this time noting that I sent him logs of my Discord DM with Light. Realizing his defeat, Light cut communications with him but not before dropping one last ad-hominem. Sources: - Post Office of Ankh-Morpork - #war-room
- Discord DMs with Catholic_Mario
- Discord DMs with LightUk
- Discord DMs with Caufas4096
What point are you exactly trying to make by doing that?
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ron
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Post by ron on Apr 26, 2020 18:33:34 GMT
Video’s reason on LightUK’s Ban was valid but there was no reason why you should bully him, just shows how much of a petty person someone is (although I’ve done the same thing i learn from that past mistake I made and try to be more mature)
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Apr 26, 2020 18:34:57 GMT
So violating the conduct policy is okay as long as it "didn't even annoy any op other than lightuk"? Good to know that no lessons were learned in the period since "stuff from a year ago".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 18:37:26 GMT
Why would it "annoy" any OP besides the OP that was abused by you? Just because the other OPs weren't "annoyed" by it, doesn't make it right whatsoever. As the lead-developer here, you set precedent, and lead by example. As such, you need to take full responsibility for your past actions. Responding to this incident like a 12 year old, with a "yeah ok", is completely irresponsible and truly unacceptable. Frankly, It doesn't matter if this is a year ago, or yesterday, you've demonstrated nothing to prove that your behavior as changed since then. The fact that you weren't reprimanded for your actions, proves wholey and surely why we need an internal affairs team in the first place.
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