AshazTGA
Veteran Member
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 28, 2020 10:56:30 GMT
Hello everyone. Currently, we have more than 32 'active' seniors on our server. This is more than the amount of Telnets and Supers combined (which is 29). It should not be like this, the fact that we have more higher ranks than lower ranks is wrong, it should really be the other way round. Let me give a real life example. In a hotel, you have one manager, then you have like 5 executives. You then have about 30 lower staff, such as catering, room service, receptionist, janitor etc. As Vjay says, the seniors are meant to be setting an example to the super admins, but that really does not happen. Telnet Admins are also meant to set an example to Supers, which they actually do. You might say I can't generalise over rank, however I've seen this with my own eyes and so have many others. This is something me and Jay have been discussing this morning. His idea is to hire a member into the EAO team. This member is specifically the 'activity manager', They would be monitoring every admin's forum activity and in-game activity, then removing admins that do not fit the boundaries. This member only performs activity checks. My idea is a little more complicated but more efficient. Instead of having a 6 hours per month standard, we should use the data from each month to produce an average. We gather the data of each admin's playing time in hours, then divide it by the amount of admins. Here's an example (the numbers aren't real): Elmon - 15hours 97 - 30hours Fionn - 25 hours Nick - 5 hours Square - 1 hour Adding these up gives us 76 hours in total. For the purpose of this example, let's just pretend these 5 admins are the only admins. We divide 76 by 5 which gives us 15.2 hours. Therefore, admins should be in-game for at least 15.2 hours in that month to be in-game. This system is much more efficient as our current 6 hour standard as it shows what admins should be achieving for that month to keep their power. The data should only apply towards that one month, not the lifetime data. I also suggest that we look at the punishment logs and work out the average of the amount of logs each month
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fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Jul 28, 2020 11:00:32 GMT
His idea is to hire a member into the EAO team. This member is specifically the 'activity manager', They would be monitoring every admin's forum activity and in-game activity, then removing admins that do not fit the boundaries. This is what we do anyway.
My idea is a little more complicated but more efficient. Instead of having a 6 hours per month standard, we should use the data from each month to produce an average. We gather the data of each admin's playing time in hours, then divide it by the amount of admins. Here's an example (the numbers aren't real): I do vouch for this, it seems like a better way of finding an optimal numberchanging to an object for stevens reasoning
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Jay
Veteran Member
TFM is a mess.
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Post by Jay on Jul 28, 2020 11:00:50 GMT
It might seem overbearing at first when you read it, but if we're being blunt here, if you're not administrating or actively contributing to admin related forum discussions in a gainful matter, there's no reason for you to hold a spot on the admin list. If you ever decide you want to contribute again, it's as easy as reinstating and speaking with your actions. This system, created and managed properly, would proficiently manage the activity of admins in a much better way than just making sure they have six hours moving on the server a week.
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
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Post by square on Jul 28, 2020 12:37:59 GMT
object
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tozzit
Veteran Member
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Post by tozzit on Jul 28, 2020 13:47:20 GMT
You've stated an issue and then made a suggestion that doesnt even solve it. Removing admins under a certain playing time doesnt solve the admin ratio.
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Luke
Veteran Member
Go home to your family, Neo
Posts: 1,124
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Post by Luke on Jul 28, 2020 13:56:41 GMT
I don't understand, so we resolve the admin:op ratio by.. removing admins that aren't a part of the problem?
I think the system is fine as it is. That's just my opinion.
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97
Veteran Member
RIP Telnet
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Post by 97 on Jul 28, 2020 14:12:56 GMT
The system is fine. Object
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StevenNL2000
Forum Admin
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IGN: StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Jul 28, 2020 14:16:26 GMT
Object. The idea sounds good on the surface, but it is mathematically disastrous. You call your idea complicated, but statistics gets much more complicated and will bite you if you don't handle it properly.
Before purge:Finest - 139h markbyron - 109h Prozza - 60h MEGAF4IL - 55h AcidicCyanide - 55h EnderLolzeh - 49h Andoodle - 43h thecjgcjg - 40h Oliver - 3h Sardenarin - 1h Wow, almost every admin was online for more than an hour per day on average! Those are some dedicated admins. Surely we don't want to remove them. There are also 2 clearly inactive ones. Let's see who the statistics say should be removed:
(139 + 109 + 60 + 55 + 55 + 49 + 43 + 40 + 3 + 1) / 10 = 55.4h After purge:Finest - 139h markbyron - 109h Prozza - 60h Whoops, we just purged almost the entire admin list.
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burger
Registered
fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Jul 28, 2020 14:23:48 GMT
Vouch
Changing to object.
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monkeh
Veteran Member
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Post by monkeh on Jul 28, 2020 14:36:19 GMT
object as per Steven's reason
also object to the punishment logs point. It seems like you're basically trying to implement a punishment quota. This basically gives admins an incentive to over-punish and compete for punishments, which we definitely don't want
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Post by Telesphoreo on Jul 28, 2020 14:40:37 GMT
Object
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 28, 2020 15:11:39 GMT
Object, stated before removing admins literally does nothing for the server besides make the ratio look "pretty." the problem isnt that we have too many admins, its that we have too few players
"seniors are meant to be setting an example to the super admins, but that really does not happen. Telnet Admins are also meant to set an example to Supers, which they actually do. You might say I can't generalise over rank, however I've seen this with my own eyes and so have many others. "
i never really got where this "oh this guy is a higher rank than me so he's to be trusted more!" No. He is not your boss, he is your peer. Stop romanticizing rank disparity. I expect every single admin to do their job. The admin conduct policy is the exact same for all admins. There's no secret "Senior conduct policy" that holds seniors to a higher standard. Look up to people who do their job, and stop just looking at their [SrA] tag. All ranks are incredibly easy to achieve if you have half a brain.
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ron
Full Member
Creative Designer
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Post by ron on Jul 28, 2020 15:49:42 GMT
Object
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StevenNL2000
Forum Admin
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Jul 28, 2020 16:38:16 GMT
"seniors are meant to be setting an example to the super admins, but that really does not happen. Telnet Admins are also meant to set an example to Supers, which they actually do. You might say I can't generalise over rank, however I've seen this with my own eyes and so have many others. " i never really got where this "oh this guy is a higher rank than me so he's to be trusted more!" No. He is not your boss, he is your peer. Stop romanticizing rank disparity. I expect every single admin to do their job. The admin conduct policy is the exact same for all admins. There's no secret "Senior conduct policy" that holds seniors to a higher standard. Look up to people who do their job, and stop just looking at their [SrA] tag. All ranks are incredibly easy to achieve if you have half a brain. It's the other way around: he is trusted more, so the community promoted him to a higher rank. Maybe it's easy to get Senior now, but that reasoning definitely held in the past and a lot of policies are still written as if it does.
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zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 28, 2020 16:45:13 GMT
"seniors are meant to be setting an example to the super admins, but that really does not happen. Telnet Admins are also meant to set an example to Supers, which they actually do. You might say I can't generalise over rank, however I've seen this with my own eyes and so have many others. " i never really got where this "oh this guy is a higher rank than me so he's to be trusted more!" No. He is not your boss, he is your peer. Stop romanticizing rank disparity. I expect every single admin to do their job. The admin conduct policy is the exact same for all admins. There's no secret "Senior conduct policy" that holds seniors to a higher standard. Look up to people who do their job, and stop just looking at their [SrA] tag. All ranks are incredibly easy to achieve if you have half a brain. It's the other way around: he is trusted more, so the community promoted him to a higher rank. Maybe it's easy to get Senior now, but that reasoning definitely held in the past and a lot of policies are still written as if it does. You're saying the seniors who were appointed by mark were more trusted then our current seniors? You could get super by just being friends with a Telnet / Senior via the *PaS system. Imagine if Seth just appointed admins the way Mark did. There would be 3+ threads calling for him to reverse it. Being an admin on TF is incredibly easy with the tools we have. Someone being annoying in chat? Mute them. Someone griefing? Roll them back with coreprotect. I still do not believe getting Senior demonstrates your effectiveness as an admin, and never really has. I think it much more as a "gold sticker" that you get for your activity. "It's the other way around: he is trusted more, so the community promoted him to a higher rank" so then having this many seniors isnt an issue then if they're all trusted correct?
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