miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 30, 2020 10:56:25 GMT
I really dislike the very premise of these vote off threads. Could we at least have a discussion (Like Zaid suggested) before doing a vote? the point of the vote off thread is to be able to take immediate reaction, if you have a problem with that please make a suggestions thread. thank you I think it is more than appropriate to voice my grievances with the way this vote off is being handled specifically. Thank you Also: I suggest adding some sort of process before a vote-off is posted. Since we now have the 3 month approval polls, I feel like vote-offs should be a last resort for when an executive is truly unfit for their position. Otherwise, we can let the 3 month polls speak for themselves. Perhaps having a "vote-off discussion" thread before the vote-off itself can prevent situations like these where some of the info provided may be skewed. After the community is shown the facts in the discussion thread, a locked thread similar to a voting thread can be posted where the community can either keep or remove the exec after they have all the facts. This will be amended into the executive policy, if anyone has a better idea then feel free to suggest it. So please be quiet. Thank you.
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Geek
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Post by Geek on Jun 30, 2020 21:21:16 GMT
Before I give out a vote, could we have Wise explain his part of the story so this could be a fair vote-off? I agree. I do not believe it is easy to make an informed decision knowing just the information on this thread. I would prefer to hear both sides. I do not believe that I can fairly vote on this vote-off unless this takes place (and so, I will not be voting).
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 30, 2020 21:23:35 GMT
Im voting no - merely because of my overall attitude towards these call-out threads. That is not to say I approve or disapprove of W1ze's tenure.
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burger
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Post by burger on Jun 30, 2020 21:26:28 GMT
Im voting no - merely because of my overall attitude towards these call-out threads. That is not to say I approve or disapprove of W1ze's tenure. This is not a poll of whether you agree with how these "call out" threads operate, this is a thread asking whether you think wize has done his job as the server liaison. You can't vote no because of something that has nothing to do with wize.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 30, 2020 21:27:40 GMT
Im voting no - merely because of my overall attitude towards these call-out threads. That is not to say I approve or disapprove of W1ze's tenure. This is not a poll of whether you agree with how these "call out" threads operate, this is a thread asking whether you think wize has done his job as the server liaison. You can't vote no because of something that has nothing to do with wize. I disagree with removing this individual without having a proper procedure. So yes, I can object merely based on this stance.
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burger
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Post by burger on Jun 30, 2020 21:31:02 GMT
This is not a poll of whether you agree with how these "call out" threads operate, this is a thread asking whether you think wize has done his job as the server liaison. You can't vote no because of something that has nothing to do with wize. I disagree with removing this individual without having a proper procedure. So yes, I can object merely based on this stance. What would you call a proper procedure? We have put down evidence regarding wize which has proofed he has been lying to us. We have taken a poll regarding his roll as the server liaison and have asked him to give his side of the story. Why do you not find this fair?
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jun 30, 2020 21:55:29 GMT
This is not a poll of whether you agree with how these "call out" threads operate, this is a thread asking whether you think wize has done his job as the server liaison. You can't vote no because of something that has nothing to do with wize. I disagree with removing this individual without having a proper procedure. So yes, I can object merely based on this stance. I'm doing this according to the procedure that is in place now. Whether or not that procedure is adequate is a different suggestion entirely. I've laid out hard evidence supporting my claims, it is up to the community to decide. I respect your vote either way and I won't try and change your mind.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jun 30, 2020 22:01:08 GMT
I'm not making this vote off because Wize didn't do anything (although I suspect this may be the case, however, I have no hard evidence of this and thus won't be citing that as a reason). I am doing it because of the dishonesty (lying). Wize made claims about things that Seth has directly said did not happen, meaning he lied directly to me and the rest of the community. And although I can't justify his actions, I'd really like it if he responded. I approached him multiple times about what he did, and was blown off each time. If he had been upfront and didn't make up stuff about money, we wouldn't be here now. Executives are supposed to be the most trusted people on the server and to have one lying is not acceptable IMO.
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burger
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Post by burger on Jul 1, 2020 16:40:43 GMT
Once again, @w1z would you please give your side of the story regards to your apparent lying? Before a final verdict should me made it would be only fair if you at the very least gave us an explanation as to why you chose to be dishonest.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 1, 2020 19:33:20 GMT
I disagree with removing this individual without having a proper procedure. So yes, I can object merely based on this stance. What would you call a proper procedure? We have put down evidence regarding wize which has proofed he has been lying to us. We have taken a poll regarding his roll as the server liaison and have asked him to give his side of the story. Why do you not find this fair? A proper procedure would be what Zaid already noted earlier: a formal thread wherein a discussion can be hold in regards to an acting executive's performance over the past few months. Here, the executive in question has ample opportunity to explain themselves, before an actual vote is put forth. I think it is nonsensical to already put a vote-off on the forums, when W1ze has had no time to actually explain the situation, so of course it looks shady as fuck. I am more than willing to give W1ze the benefit of the doubt in the thread that was (and should have been made if we are following the actual exec policy). It is completely unfair to W1ze (and to me as well) that these threads were made on a whim instead of actually giving the accused a platform to explain their situation. You could literally just have PM'd our EAO on the matter, and that would've most likely been handled far more professionally. I disagree with removing this individual without having a proper procedure. So yes, I can object merely based on this stance. I'm doing this according to the procedure that is in place now. Whether or not that procedure is adequate is a different suggestion entirely. I've laid out hard evidence supporting my claims, it is up to the community to decide. I respect your vote either way and I won't try and change your mind. Eh, the EAO literally just said that the current exec policy was to be amended with that suggestion, so that is some-what shaky logic you're going by. You cannot dispute the fact that making a spontanous thread calling somebody out with a poll attached that can kick them off from their position without giving them any proper chance to explain themselves beforehand is disingenious. That is still not to say I support / disapprove of W1ze as Server Liason.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 1, 2020 19:40:50 GMT
I'm not making this vote off because Wize didn't do anything (although I suspect this may be the case, however, I have no hard evidence of this and thus won't be citing that as a reason). I am doing it because of the dishonesty (lying). Wize made claims about things that Seth has directly said did not happen, meaning he lied directly to me and the rest of the community. And although I can't justify his actions, I'd really like it if he responded. I approached him multiple times about what he did, and was blown off each time. If he had been upfront and didn't make up stuff about money, we wouldn't be here now. Executives are supposed to be the most trusted people on the server and to have one lying is not acceptable IMO. If you were genuine in wanting an explaination, then perhaps you would've actually asked him publically on the forums before making a thread attacking him and threatning to boot him off the ship.
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burger
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Post by burger on Jul 1, 2020 19:51:04 GMT
A proper procedure would be what Zaid already noted earlier: a formal thread wherein a discussion can be hold in regards to an acting executive's performance over the past few months. Here, the executive in question has ample opportunity to explain themselves, before an actual vote is put forth. I think it is nonsensical to already put a vote-off on the forums, when W1ze has had no time to actually explain the situation, so of course it looks shady as fuck. I am more than willing to give W1ze the benefit of the doubt in the thread that was (and should have been made if we are following the actual exec policy). It is completely unfair to W1ze (and to me as well) that these threads were made on a whim instead of actually giving the accused a platform to explain their situation. You could literally just have PM'd our EAO on the matter, and that would've most likely been handled far more professionally. Myself and others have tagged Wize multiple times asking him to give his side of the story and he is yet to answer. Infact, he is yet to even post on this thread. We have discussed his situation here and Darth has given proof of him lying. Now then, you can go ahead and give him the benafit of the doubt but that is somewhat unfair as he seems to be ignoring this thread's existent. We cant force him to give his side of the story and it is unfair to blame the voting process becuase he wont give information. If anything, he knows he is guilty and is just keeping his mouth shut hoping this will fall through the cracks and be forgotten.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jul 1, 2020 19:52:41 GMT
A proper procedure would be what Zaid already noted earlier: a formal thread wherein a discussion can be hold in regards to an acting executive's performance over the past few months. Here, the executive in question has ample opportunity to explain themselves, before an actual vote is put forth. I think it is nonsensical to already put a vote-off on the forums, when W1ze has had no time to actually explain the situation, so of course it looks shady as fuck. I am more than willing to give W1ze the benefit of the doubt in the thread that was (and should have been made if we are following the actual exec policy). It is completely unfair to W1ze (and to me as well) that these threads were made on a whim instead of actually giving the accused a platform to explain their situation. You could literally just have PM'd our EAO on the matter, and that would've most likely been handled far more professionally. Myself and others have tagged Wize multiple times asking him to give his side of the story and he is yet to answer. Infact, he is yet to even post on this thread. We have discussed his situation here and Darth has given proof of him lying. Now then, you can go ahead and give him the benafit of the doubt but that is somewhat unfair as he seems to be ignoring this thread's existent. We cant force him to give his side of the story and it is unfair to blame the voting process becuase he wont give information. If anything, he knows he is guilty and is just keeping his mouth shut hoping this will fall through the cracks and be forgotten. He hasn't actually been on the forums in 4 days, although that could be a problem in and of itself.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 1, 2020 20:12:09 GMT
A proper procedure would be what Zaid already noted earlier: a formal thread wherein a discussion can be hold in regards to an acting executive's performance over the past few months. Here, the executive in question has ample opportunity to explain themselves, before an actual vote is put forth. I think it is nonsensical to already put a vote-off on the forums, when W1ze has had no time to actually explain the situation, so of course it looks shady as fuck. I am more than willing to give W1ze the benefit of the doubt in the thread that was (and should have been made if we are following the actual exec policy). It is completely unfair to W1ze (and to me as well) that these threads were made on a whim instead of actually giving the accused a platform to explain their situation. You could literally just have PM'd our EAO on the matter, and that would've most likely been handled far more professionally. Myself and others have tagged Wize multiple times asking him to give his side of the story and he is yet to answer. Infact, he is yet to even post on this thread. We have discussed his situation here and Darth has given proof of him lying. Now then, you can go ahead and give him the benafit of the doubt but that is somewhat unfair as he seems to be ignoring this thread's existent. We cant force him to give his side of the story and it is unfair to blame the voting process becuase he wont give information. If anything, he knows he is guilty and is just keeping his mouth shut hoping this will fall through the cracks and be forgotten. You have tagged him in THIS thread multiple times. The thread that has called him out for abuse and for a lack of transparency with a neato poll attached to it which is most likely going to lead to him getting booted off from the position. A big portion of the votes cast already are basically set in stone, even if the voters were to change their mind, because a big chunk of those voters will most likely not even view this thread again. So therefore I still strongly object to the very premise of this thread, and still am very much in favour of an actual discussion beforehand.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jul 1, 2020 20:23:58 GMT
I'd like to note that Wize has left the TF discord. My hopes for a response from him aren't too high right now.
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