Add Master Builder Chat

I disagree with this. I'm thinking in the opposite direction of this which isn't to make master builders further separate from being a regular member, but closer to being a regular member. Rather, I feel like regular members should have access to the perks you get of being a master builder.

I think that we should see towards regular members having more freedom & protection when it comes to building. Only admins & master builders get these perks, and that's one major reason why we have redundant amounts of people that feel a compulsive need to apply for admin or master builder. Master builder is great as a rank for people that are extraordinary, but we need to make being a regular member enjoyable.

For a master builder chat, I think it would be pretty redundant.

"I feel like regular members should have access to the perks you get of being a master builder."
Normal players should get access to MB World? Why the fuk would you have a seperate rank, if that's the case?

"I think that we should see towards regular members having more freedom & protection when it comes to building. Only admins & master builders get these perks,"
Except that is one of the privileges MBs get upon recieving their rank - you can't safeguard the entire server without locking parts of it off to a certain group of individuals. You are not going to get a big map built by MBs if you give them the same amount of protection as normal players, which will always be some-what unprotected due to the nature of Total Freedom as a server concept. '

"and that's one major reason why we have redundant amounts of people that feel a compulsive need to apply for admin or master builder."
Stop bringing your Admin complains into this thread. Master Builder is meant to be a rank that players should want. Exactly the opposite of Admin, so therefore your logic doesn't work in this instance. Master Builder has always been a rank that was meant to recognize players for their skill and give them even more tools to work with. How do I know this? Because I was the creator of the rank. Since the inception of the rank I have tried to get more plugins added solely for Masterbuilders, whether that'd be less-restrictive World Edit, Voxel Sniper or GoBrush. I have nothing against the average player having World Edit, but good luck keeping a server up 24/7 with unrestricted World Edit access to the average player. Since Master Builders go through an application progress and are subject to Perm ban if found griefing, means that they are far, far less likely to grief/crash the server with World Edit. So your logic completely falls flat when you take into account, that MBs go through this process, and that they are MEANT to have additional perks. Tell me, why do other servers have donor ranks, builder ranks or the like? Because the player gets rewareded for their skill/contribution to the server. 
Players should be rewarded for their effort and talent - if you disagree, then you should start another poll to get the MB rank removed.

The idea that we simply cannot have protection or freedom without locking it off to certain people is absurd. We can have a master builder world for building maps that will actually be used by the server, but my point is that we should be able to have a regular world where people can build casually. If your argument is that we can't have that, then we have a problem here that goes farther than master builders.

The logic does work in this instance. The adminworld for one thing, and the fact that admins can bypass restrictions among everything else they can do. They're pretty much the spotlight of the server, and if somebody becomes an admin they would be able to ban the griefers themselves. We need to properly address the reason why people *want* the ranks master builder and admin. The point should be to make it enjoyable to be a regular member. Is it such a horrifying point to make that we should make it a nice experience to be a regular player on this fucking server?

this may have been said before on a different thread, i haven't been active on forums lately

when i was an admin, one of the things i noticed was that more often than not, admin chat was used as a personal group chat of friends rather than a chat about administration. in my opinion, this is one of the things that increases the bridge between admins and ops. whether or not a master builder chat should be added should be based off of that; will it actually be used for building, or will it have the same fate as admin chat and increase the bridge between ranked users and ops?

You're misconstruingwhat I said entirely. I never said we shouldn't attempt to offer more protection to the average player. What I said was, that it is impossible to give 100% grief-immunity to the average player, because we have this concept called "Total Freedom". And I don't really understand why you now include "Freedom" into this discussion? Does it give less freedom to the average player that players who have ascended the ranks now get a reward for their skill and effort? The fuk is the point in having a rank hierarchy at all then?.

"We can have a master builder world for building maps that will actually be used by the server,"
Tell me one time, that the MB team has ever made a map that was used for the normal Total Freedom worlds (not MB world). There has never been such an instance, other than me or the other occassional MB supplying their own Singleplayer map. Your entire argument is based on the false-equivalence that Master Builder = Admins. They do not. Not at all. Master Builders are supposed to be a title that people should aspire towards. Admin is not. So to continue your own discussion on this premise is the absurd part - not the part where you call it absurd that we can't give protection & freedom to the average player, hence strawmanning the entirety of my argument. 
The fact that you even include the Admin World in this discussion is absurd, because it literally has nothig to do with the subject at hand. Again, Admin =/= Master Builder, because they have such a completely different purpose. Stop trying to shift the discussion over to your hard-on for "Fuck SA as a perk". I agree with you on that matter, but it has nothing to do with my OP, so kindly fuk off with that. There is no reason to conflate the two in your comment. 

"my point is that we should be able to have a regular world where people can build casually"
And we already have that, so what do you want changed? Why do you even say this?

"Is it such a horrifying point to make that we should make it a nice experience to be a regular player on this fucking server?"
When did I ever say it shouldn't? Have I ever said that the normal Op should have less priveleges, or less 'freedom' as you put it? How does it affect the average player that the MB rank has some extra perks that are relevant to the rank, and that they also have their own private world? I'll tell you - it merely makes it so that the average player has something to aspire towards on Total Freedom, making them more likely to become a regular instead of staying on the server for 5 min, and saying "shit there's nothing to do so I'll leave, because I can literally go on another creative server and get Voxel Sniper and unlimited World edit access in my own private plot". 
So get the fuck out with the notion that I am trying to worsen the experience of the average player - I am trying to enhance it. 

I think this talk about "bridging the gap between ops and admins" has nothing to do with this idea. Being an admin requires literally no skills whatsoever. Being able to build actually nice things requires at least some skill, concentration and cooperation.

Imagine there are 10 players on the server: a group of 3 OPs playing together, another group of 4 OPs playing together, and 3 master builders. You separate the master builders from the other OPs, and say: "The 7 players in the main chat now see fewer irrelevant messages.". I agree with that. But now I put everyone back together and separate the group of 3 OPs from the others. Then I could say: "The 7 players in the main chat now see fewer irrelevant messages.", and I would be just as correct as you were.

In other words, I'm trying to figure out what makes master builders special in this regard.