square
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Asst. Creative Designer
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Dec 16, 2018 21:34:12 GMT
Post by square on Dec 16, 2018 21:34:12 GMT
quote the person above you example:
square: "hi" speed: "oh ok" robin: "square emo european"
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fionn
Club 4000 Member
Admin Officer
elmon sucks
Posts: 6,157
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Dec 16, 2018 21:36:31 GMT
Post by fionn on Dec 16, 2018 21:36:31 GMT
oh ok
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smg515
Full Member
z
Posts: 299
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Dec 16, 2018 22:01:50 GMT
Post by smg515 on Dec 16, 2018 22:01:50 GMT
oh ok
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CurtainPoles
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My name is Lucifer.
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Dec 16, 2018 22:11:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by CurtainPoles on Dec 16, 2018 22:11:33 GMT
oh ok
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Deleted
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Dec 16, 2018 22:28:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 22:28:30 GMT
oh ok
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
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Dec 16, 2018 23:01:43 GMT
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Post by square on Dec 16, 2018 23:01:43 GMT
oh ok
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Hana
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Dec 16, 2018 23:03:01 GMT
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Post by Hana on Dec 16, 2018 23:03:01 GMT
wholesome ops
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Dec 16, 2018 23:10:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:10:40 GMT
TLDR: More admins = Less players. More admins = more drama. More admins = more rogues. More rogues = less players. The server is structured to be a community for admins, when it should be geared towards the actual players.
KANYECRAFT DOESN'T EXIST IT'S A REPRESENTATION OF THE AVERAGE SERVER
I'LL PROBABLY ADD TO THIS OVER TIME
Disclaimer: I wrote this in an hour at school so there's probably errors, and I didn't include as much as I would have liked to. So first of all, there's definitely issues effecting this server. You're right that it's not too late, and that there isn't any easy solution. To be clear, I do think there is a solution to the problem, however it would be very hard to properly implement, simply because of how much we rely on it. But if people really want this server to survive, I think it should be considered. Now to start off, lets think of a normal minecraft server, we'll call it KanyeCraft. I'll use Kanyecraft as a reference between the average minecraft server and TotalFreedom. On this KanyeCraft, players probably have the incentive to keep coming back for a few obvious reasons: maybe because there's a real sense of community, they find it a lot of fun, or their friends play on it. Pretty similar to TotalFreedom. However, TF has one big difference: the incentive of becoming an admin. On KanyeCraft, less than 1% of the playerbase are admins, and the 99% are normal players who have no chance of becoming admin; this is fine for the players, because the server already fills up all their needs, and there is no incentive of becoming an admin. This is where my issue is. On TotalFreedom, there is a HUGE incentive to become admin. Now let's look at the possible reasons a normal player wants admin, and relate it to KanyeCraft player incentives I listed earlier: - There is almost no OP community on TF. No, seriously, it's almost non existent. In huge contrast to the admin community, which is actually rather large, and is growing. So as the OP community shrinks, the admin community grows. I will touch on this later.
- Being an admin is simply far more fun than being an OP. Just objectively, being an OP is just a bare bones experience when compared to the admin experience. And the players definitely know this.
- If their friend referred them to the server, their friend is probably an admin. And guess what? If their friend happens to be telnet or above, they can instantly make them an admin. So why stay an OP when every single sign points towards becoming an admin, which is objectively more fun?
So there's the problem. There's no point in staying a normal player when becoming an admin is more fun and easy. Whereas on KanyeCraft, becoming an admin is extremely hard, and probably less fun than being a normal player. So what causes becoming an admin on TF so easy while on KanyeCraft it's so hard? Four things: Admin applications, *PAS, ranking up, and admin culture. These four things are huge parts of TotalFreedom. I'll now compare and contrast all of these issues individually with TotalFreedom and the average server. Admin Applications: - TotalFreedom: Admin applications are opened almost the entire year. There is no real limit as to how many can be open, and there's never really a reason as to why they should be open. Now let's be clear, admin applications almost always fail, mostly because the applicant doesn't know what they're doing. But even if applications only succeed 5% of the time, considering how many applications there are, a considerable amount succeed. Especially when you consider that people can just try, over and over again until they eventually succeed. So now that dude is an admin, but did we really gain anything from that?
- KanyeCraft: Admin applications are either: nonexistent, almost never opened, only when they really need a new admin, or always open, but extremely strict. So let's suppose that the latter is true, and that applications are just really strict. Like, so strict that even if someone deserves admin, they won't get it because the server doesn't actually need any new admins. No one will become admin simply because they applied so many times that they finally succeeded.
*PAS:
- TotalFreedom: *PAS (tpas, spas, opas, etc) was originally a good idea when a very small amount of people could do it. It used to be limited to just seniors, and there was way less seniors back then. When you have so many people that can do this, you'll find that you get more and more admins exponentially. It's just an outdated concept, and promotes nepotism.
- KanyeCraft: It either doesn't exist, or there's a similar concept where higher executives or the owner can choose an admin. But it's probably not really a thing.
Ranking up:
- TotalFreedom: Ranking up is a huge part of the admin process on TotalFreedom. It does give an incentive to admins to work harder, but it also promotes power hungry admins, and it ultimately gives a reason to be an admin that has nothing to do with even the server itself. The ranking process creates a cultural divide even between the admins of the same server. This is almost entirely unheard of in other servers, but it's a huge problem here simply because of how many admins there are. And since there are multiple layers to being an admin, we're more likely to promote someone to super admin, because the rank means less.
- KanyeCraft: Ranking up exists, but it's probably only done when someone really deserves it, not because they've waited their turn. This still creates power hungry admins, but since there are far less admins than on TotalFreedom, it's not really an issue. It's not really a formal process like TotalFreedom has.
Admin culture:
- TotalFreedom: Oh boy, this is a big problem. We've tried reinforcing the idea that more admins equals less downtime for many years, and I think at this point it's just objectively false. The idea of having an admin on 24/7 is just a fundamentally impossible goal, and has been the excuse for having far more admins than we really need, to the point where we almost have more admins than players. The idea that we should shoot for quantity over quality is really a root cause of many issues we're currently facing.
- KanyeCraft: There probably isn't any admin culture. Admin culture only exists on TF because it's evolved to this point after so many years.
Another issue that I think is hurting the server a lot is how poorly we treat our players. The divide between the admins of the server and the players of this server is just intense. I've seen on very many occasions where OPs are just openly treated like garbage, simply because they're a lower rank. I have experienced this personally, when I wasn't an admin for a bit. Admins that did not know I was a past senior almost always treated me like shit, like I was subhuman. Dare question authority? Too bad. Admin disrespected you? Oh get over it. But no disrespecting admins! This also contributes to more people wanting to become admin, just so they actually feel respected. And if they don't decide to become an admin, they might just leave the server because it's just so hostile. So what does that mean? More admins, less players. So with all of this being said, how does more admins mean less players? Here's my little feedback loop to explain it. When a new player joins the server, here are the possibilities of things they will do next:
- Player joins the server and never becomes an admin, but stays: This is the ideal situation, and the situation that should be promoted more. However, it is being increasingly less common, which is TERRIBLE for the server.
- Player joins the server and becomes an admin: This is the less ideal situation, and I think it's being promoted far more than it should be. When a player becomes an admin, you have one less player.
- Player becomes admin and goes rogue: This is a cause and affect of the player having become admin. If he simply stayed a player all along, this scenario would have never occurred. And he probably caused some players to leave while he was at it.
- Player joins the server and leaves: If a player can't become admin, they might just leave. This is the worst possible scenario.
How do I propose we fix this?
So if you've read this far, perhaps you agree with me, perhaps you don't. Regardless, here are my pretty controversial suggestions, that you may or may not agree with:
1. Indefinitely close admin applications. Do this until we actually really need a new admin.
2. Stop giving rogue admins their power back so easily. If someone really proves they deserve it after a long time, maybe. But if we just keep giving people more and more chances, it just does so much harm to the server, and results in more drama.
3. Work to develop the community for the players. Advertise the server, give new opportunities for players, find a way to give a lasting sense of community, etc. Stop focusing on the admin community so much.
4. Admin purge. Purge a large amount of admins that simply aren't living up to the job. If that definition happens to include me, so be it.
5. Remove all applications for being promoted. Admins should be handpicked on who is best for the job, and then can be voted on. No more pity promotions.
6. Stop treating players like dogshit. You see it every day, even on the forum. Stop acting like admins are more entitled to respect, everyone deserves the same respect.
7. Just start gradually moving towards acting like a normal server. If we really want this server to survive, we need to do what works. 8. Freeze *PAS indefinitely. I don't have a complete solution on this, because it seems like it's not a completely dead concept, but it's also just so fundamentally broken in correspondence to my suggestions. Perhaps in the future allow only the executives to do it with limits, but many just remove it entirely. 9. Work towards quality over quantity. 10. Improve communication and transparency from executives and the owner. 11. Increase OP voting rights. Allow them to vote on permban appeals. Allow them to vote on new admins.
Now these changes would only work if we actually committed to them. No half measures. I think these changes are worth trying, but that really falls to the owner to decide. Now obviously more would be needed to, but this is just a start.
[/quote]
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Dec 17, 2018 0:09:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 0:09:45 GMT
:okretard:
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CorruptedPolygon
Club 4000 Member
don't you want to be someone forever?
Posts: 4,549
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IGN: CorruptedPolygon
Old IGN: ChaotixSuccs, ResidentMemelord, Chaotix_, UltimaTheHawke, transformas12345
Discord: Chaotix#3215
Birthdate (MM/DD): 08/03
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Dec 17, 2018 0:18:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by CorruptedPolygon on Dec 17, 2018 0:18:48 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Dec 17, 2018 1:11:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 1:11:28 GMT
This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill. This server has become so boring these last months, and I frankly don't like it here. The reasoning of my suspension was bizarre, considering that what I did wouldn't have changed anything. It's sad to see so many people already starting to leave-- or are planning to leave. This server isn't what it used to be - a friendly environment for people who would like to have a small hobby by being an admin. Honestly, I don't feel interested in coming back-- and if it wasn't for the suspension, I would have resigned anyway. Goodbye and goodluck on trying to bring this server back to how it was, even though I doubt anything has changed since it just seems to go downhill.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Dec 17, 2018 1:28:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 1:28:00 GMT
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Lucas
Veteran Member
fucking gross
Posts: 2,495
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Dec 17, 2018 3:48:44 GMT
Post by Lucas on Dec 17, 2018 3:48:44 GMT
i hope you saved your plot
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Dec 17, 2018 10:04:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 10:04:26 GMT
your package was delivered 10 days ago
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Dec 17, 2018 10:54:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 10:54:44 GMT
you fucker you're just gathering quotes for your shitty quotes command
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