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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 1:48:07 GMT
The following was enacted by Pramire, a probationary Senior. totalfreedom.boards.net/user/195071. Approx date and time you suspended the admin.8:15 PM [CST] - 4/10/18.
2. Why you suspended the admin.
Hover was suspended for conspiring with operators to 'keep information hidden' from other administrators - quote unquote "I won't say anything to anyone[,] though." The suspended administrator intentionally failed to communicate with myself, and other administrators; when being caught engaging in a private discussion with an operator (Lily ), in which the latter individual textually pondered suicide. After being questioned, Hover showed a lack of interest to elaborate - to the point where he began lying about the operator's situation. [20:03:09] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r I can just look at logs
[20:03:13] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r :3
[20:03:15] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r well.
[20:03:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: hmmm
[20:03:45] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: Kash showed me the senior info on disignusblock's suspension
[20:03:48] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: it seems weird
[20:03:55] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r You're nico?
[20:03:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r Mhm.
[20:04:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Hover... I'm not really appreciative of you harassing operators
[20:04:09] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r Don't tell any souls.
[20:04:12] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: what?
[20:04:18] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm not
[20:04:19] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r I trust you because you are my friend.
[20:04:20] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: "I can just look at logs [...] :3"
[20:04:29] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Not very professional
[20:04:33] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: well he was going to tell me anyways
[20:05:00] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r You got anything to say...?
[20:05:03] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r no
[20:05:10] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r I don't care who you are
[20:05:20] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r you shouldn't have been perm banned in the first place anyways imo
[20:05:29] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r ...you really think so?
[20:05:32] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r yes
[20:05:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r I also spoke to MarkTheDragon
[20:06:12] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r Holy damn.
[20:06:17] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r ?
[20:06:20] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r I fcked up didn't i.
[20:06:33] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r There's like 7 admins online.
[20:06:41] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r Most of which has cmd/socialspy on.
[20:06:47] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat : /r uh-oh.
[20:07:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r Well thats the thing
[20:07:31] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r The reason I was talking about logs earlier is that now that disignus exposed you in-game, any admin can simply look at the logs to see what happened/who you are
[20:07:43] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r I..
[20:07:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r I won't say anything to anyone though
[20:07:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r Thank you.
[20:07:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r So much. That means alot to me.
[20:08:38] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r besides most of the admins online are not the type of people to expose people
[20:08:39] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r Is anyone saying anything in admin chat?
[20:08:42] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r no
[20:08:50] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r Good, and good.
[20:08:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r i mean irix yelled at me for saying "I can just look at logs :3"
[20:09:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server:HoverTechV3] Oh fuck off
[20:09:15] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: watch that mouth
[20:09:19] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: ^
[20:09:22] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm seeing what happens
[20:09:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What do you mean "seeing what happens"
[20:09:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What are you trying to provoke?
[20:09:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm not trying to provoke anything?
[20:13:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r you should just make a thread
[20:13:38] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r :(
[20:13:41] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r and apologize
[20:13:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r Confessing myself?
[20:13:47] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] HoverTechV3 : /r yes
[20:13:48] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] TotallyNotLily : /r Okay...
[20:13:52] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] Pramire : /r LilyDaCat issued server command: /msg Hover "I'm really considering killing myself right now". Does that seem serious o you
[20:13:56] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /msg Hover "I'm really considering killing myself right now". Does that seem serious o you
[20:14:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] speediv [STA]: oh that
[20:14:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: Could you explain this, HoverTechV3?
[20:14:09] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: :thinking:
[20:14:17] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: No, that wasn't me who sent the message.
[20:14:26] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: Why are they sending this to you
[20:14:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Yes, but you received the message and have failed to take proper action.
[20:14:51] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: What would proper action be then?
[20:14:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I didn't respond
[20:14:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] SpecLeader [SrA]: Who said "Oh fuck off" again
[20:15:09] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: You should know that threats to suicide, or death, are absolutely intolerable on this server.
[20:15:14] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Skoonk_and_Xeoda [SrA]: Hover said it earlier
[20:15:25] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Did he?
[20:15:26] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: He was quoting a past message
[20:15:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: Ban them immediately providing them the numbers for various suicide support lines.
[20:16:03] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: If I explain why they sent that to me
[20:16:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I get suspended
[20:16:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: If I don't
[20:16:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] irix - Temporarily banned LilyDaCat until 2018-04-11 at 08:16:07 CEST, Reason: "Please call the NSPL: 1-800-273-8255 (irix)"
[20:16:07] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] LilyDaCat left the game
[20:16:11] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I get suspended anyways
[20:16:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: alright I'm sorry
[20:16:53] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: You're not making *any* sense, Hover
[20:17:01] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm juggling conversations
[20:17:17] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Then perhaps you are not in a position to currently be having administrator.
[20:17:22] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] Pramire - Removing HoverTechV3 from the admin list
[20:17:38] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] <HoverTechV3> I'm trying to explain here.
[20:17:47] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [SrA] < Pramire> No, youa ren't
[20:17:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [SrA] < Pramire> *you aren't
[20:17:55] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [SrA] < Pramire> You started talking about a "loop"
[20:17:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [Senior Admin] <irix> Hover, you have been suspended from administrator. I will publish more information regarding when/why you were suspended through Senior channels.
[20:18:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: If anyone has logs regarding any recent incident from Hover, please send me evidence right away: @irix#5973 [Discord]3. Did you attempt to correct the admin before suspending him/her?Yes; several administrators explained the proper procedure to Hover - yet he still never acted accordingly.4. Did you notify the admin that you removed them from and why?Pramire removed the administrator, and I informed them of their current status.Also see: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/59562/confessionAnd: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/59553/protestantismmovement-disignusblocks-suspended |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 1:49:58 GMT
[20:03:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: hmmm
[20:03:45] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: Kash showed me the senior info on disignusblock's suspension
[20:03:48] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: it seems weirdI'd also like to add that this statement regarding Kash gravely concerns me. Leaking information from the Senior-only category is not okay. ---- [20:14:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Yes, but you received the message and have failed to take proper action.
[20:14:51] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: What would proper action be then?
[20:14:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I didn't respondThis is untrue. Logs indicate that Hover carried on with this conversation between him and Lily, but never directed the operator to any real suicide support, a suicide hotline - and ultimately, never pushed any punishment. ---- [20:09:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server:HoverTechV3] Oh fuck off
[20:09:12] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] < Michael> ._.
[20:09:15] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: watch that mouth
[20:09:19] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: ^
[20:09:22] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm seeing what happens
[20:09:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What do you mean "seeing what happens"
[20:09:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What are you trying to provoke?
[20:09:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm not trying to provoke anything?Another incident, from around the same time, involving Hover. ---- In total, the culmination of Hover's misconduct warrants a suspension. |
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Kash
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Post by Kash on Apr 11, 2018 2:15:39 GMT
[20:03:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: hmmm
[20:03:45] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: Kash showed me the senior info on disignusblock's suspension
[20:03:48] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: it seems weirdI'd also like to add that this statement regarding Kash gravely concerns me. Leaking information from the Senior-only category is not okay. I can explain. I did tell him that DisignusBlock was suspended for exposing an identity. That's all I said to him in a conversation. The only thing he knew about is basically what the thread in the super admin lounge regards in terms of DisignusBlocks's suspension. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 2:24:19 GMT
[20:03:27] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: hmmm
[20:03:45] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: Kash showed me the senior info on disignusblock's suspension
[20:03:48] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: it seems weirdI'd also like to add that this statement regarding Kash gravely concerns me. Leaking information from the Senior-only category is not okay. I can explain. I did tell him that DisignusBlock was suspended for exposing an identity. That's all I said to him in a conversation. The only thing he knew about is basically what the thread in the super admin lounge regards in terms of DisignusBlocks's suspension. Thanks for clarifying that to me. It seems as if Hover was bluffing. |
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pj
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Post by pj on Apr 11, 2018 3:22:00 GMT
I don't believe this suspension is valid.
[03:11:50] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /msg Hover "I'm really considering killing myself right now". Does that seem serious o you
[03:11:55] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r to u*?
It's pretty confusing. It's not a direct, "I want to commit suicide." If you could see the lines before that though (they were in the previous log file), you get a clearer picture of the conversation:
[03:09:22] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r I mean, I got suspended JUST for a discord msg.
[03:09:32] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r It was merely a joke... with no punchlines.
[03:09:44] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r Who would kill themselves over minecraft?
[03:09:51] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r Like gesh.
It's pretty obvious that he didn't want to actually commit suicide.
----
Now that suicide is out of the way, let's address this "conspiracy" claim.
Hover DID in fact tell you guys what happened. He didn't withhold any information from admins.
[20:15:26] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: He was quoting a past message
[03:16:17] [Server thread/INFO]: HoverTechV3 issued server command: /o no he wasn't saying he wanted to kill himself...
Was it hard to understand? Yes, I was confused until I saw the full logs.... But when you have several admins interrogating and yelling at you, you choke up. I've spent almost half a decade here. If someone told me that I had to explain this situation in only a few minutes or risk everything I've worked for, I'd be choked up, too.
---
There were only 4 minutes between Pramire bringing up Lily in admin chat and Hover being suspended. We assume innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. This could have been sorted out very easily with a simple talk on Discord. Unless you can say with absolute, 100% certainty that you know someone has committed a suspendable offense, you should keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to fire.
Hover needs to be reinstated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 3:34:28 GMT
I don't believe this suspension is valid. [03:11:50] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /msg Hover "I'm really considering killing myself right now". Does that seem serious o you [03:11:55] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r to u*? It's pretty confusing. It's not a direct, "I want to commit suicide." If you could see the lines before that though (they were in the previous log file), you get a clearer picture of the conversation: [03:09:22] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r I mean, I got suspended JUST for a discord msg. [03:09:32] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r It was merely a joke... with no punchlines. [03:09:44] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r Who would kill themselves over minecraft? [03:09:51] [Server thread/INFO]: LilyDaCat issued server command: /r Like gesh. It's pretty obvious that he didn't want to actually commit suicide. ---- Now that suicide is out of the way, let's address this "conspiracy" claim. Hover DID in fact tell you guys what happened. He didn't withhold any information from admins. [20:15:26] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: He was quoting a past message Was it hard to understand? Yes, I was confused until I saw the full logs.... But when you have several admins interrogating and yelling at you, you choke up. I've spent almost half a decade here. If someone told me that I had to explain this situation in only a few minutes or risk everything I've worked for, I'd be choked up, too. --- There were only 4 minutes between Pramire bringing up Lily in admin chat and Hover being suspended. We assume innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. This could have been sorted out very easily with a simple talk on Discord. Unless you can say with absolute, 100% certainty that you know someone has committed a suspendable offense, you should keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to fire. Hover needs to be reinstated. While Hover might've been conflicted by an operator referencing a previous serious of events, that still does not excuse the behaviour he displayed - both while trying to elaborate [when questioned of any incident, coupled with server logs], and when committing outlying misconduct. For an administrator who's been previously afflicted with a suspension, I don't believe Hover has received the necessary lesson(s) to continue administrating. And nevertheless of the operator's intentions - or his - he did fabricate a chain of events when pressed to elaborate, regarding the 'private' conversation between him and Lily. I believe Hover is deserving of a temporary suspension - for both this behaviour, and how he acted before [and after] his removal. See the following: [20:14:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Yes, but you received the message and have failed to take proper action.
[20:14:51] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: What would proper action be then?
[20:14:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I didn't respondThis is untrue. Logs indicate that Hover carried on with this conversation between him and Lily, but never directed the operator [...] ---- [20:09:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server:HoverTechV3] Oh fuck off
[20:09:12] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] < Michael> ._.
[20:09:15] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: watch that mouth
[20:09:19] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: ^
[20:09:22] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm seeing what happens
[20:09:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What do you mean "seeing what happens"
[20:09:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What are you trying to provoke?
[20:09:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm not trying to provoke anything?Another incident, from around the same time, involving Hover.  This looks to be untrue, as well; considering Hover acknowledged that Lily's identity was already revealed by Disignus (referenced in original notif. of removal): It's clear that his story doesn't match up; and in a direct message, it's also clear that any 'choking up' would be unjustified. I also find it necessary to stress the fact that this is Pramire's suspension. ( Pramire ) - however, as a probationary Senior, he was not capable of drafting any notification of suspension. |
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pj
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Post by pj on Apr 11, 2018 4:05:58 GMT
While Hover might've been conflicted by an operator referencing a previous serious of events, that still does not excuse the behaviour he displayed - both while trying to elaborate [when questioned of any incident, coupled with server logs], and when committing outlying misconduct. For an administrator who's been previously afflicted with a suspension, I don't believe Hover has received the necessary lesson(s) to continue administrating. And nevertheless of the operator's intentions - or his - he did fabricate a chain of events when pressed to elaborate, regarding the 'private' conversation between him and Lily. I believe Hover is deserving of a temporary suspension - for both this behaviour, and how he acted before [and after] his removal. See the following: [20:14:37] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] irix [SrA]: Yes, but you received the message and have failed to take proper action.
[20:14:51] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: What would proper action be then?
[20:14:57] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I didn't respondThis is untrue. Logs indicate that Hover carried on with this conversation between him and Lily, but never directed the operator [...] ---- [20:09:05] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server:HoverTechV3] Oh fuck off
[20:09:12] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] < Michael> ._.
[20:09:15] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] VideoGameSmash12 [SA]: watch that mouth
[20:09:19] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: ^
[20:09:22] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm seeing what happens
[20:09:44] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What do you mean "seeing what happens"
[20:09:49] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] Pramire [SrA]: What are you trying to provoke?
[20:09:58] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: I'm not trying to provoke anything?Another incident, from around the same time, involving Hover. I also find it necessary to stress the fact that this is Pramire's suspension. ( Pramire ) - however, as a probationary Senior, he was not capable of drafting any notification of suspension. That suspension was from almost a year ago. I'm not online 24/7, but from what I've gathered, year old Hover behavior is not the kind of behavior he exhibits currently. He has a telnet application open, and there's not a negative consensus surrounding him. It's mixed, but if he truly hadn't learned his lesson, then he wouldn't have stood a chance. I still don't see how his behavior was questionable. The only line that confuses me is "I didn't respond." I would hardly call that lying, though. He did not fabricate anything, either. He was talking to Lily about her identity. If he disclosed it to you, he gets suspended, if not, you suspend him. The "fuck off" thing was from about 5-6 minutes before any of this even started. It has nothing to do with the suicide messages. It's just plain confusing in the context of this thread. And no, saying "fuck off" once is not worth a suspension. I still don't see anything I would deem "unacceptable behavior." I really don't. He flat out said: [03:16:17] [Server thread/INFO]: HoverTechV3 issued server command: /o no he wasn't saying he wanted to kill himself... He explained the suicide bit to you several times. --- The reason for this suspension has shifted to "he was disrespectful while we questioned him (which is completely false), he committed other misconduct (which you have not backed up), and he still hasn't learned his lesson from his year old suspension." I still see no grounds for suspension. My opinion remains, the suspension should be lifted. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 4:17:35 GMT
The suicide shit was obviously in jest and not serious
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 4:32:50 GMT
While Hover might've been conflicted by an operator referencing a previous serious of events, that still does not excuse the behaviour he displayed - both while trying to elaborate [when questioned of any incident, coupled with server logs], and when committing outlying misconduct. For an administrator who's been previously afflicted with a suspension, I don't believe Hover has received the necessary lesson(s) to continue administrating. And nevertheless of the operator's intentions - or his - he did fabricate a chain of events when pressed to elaborate, regarding the 'private' conversation between him and Lily. I believe Hover is deserving of a temporary suspension - for both this behaviour, and how he acted before [and after] his removal. See the following: I also find it necessary to stress the fact that this is Pramire's suspension. ( Pramire ) - however, as a probationary Senior, he was not capable of drafting any notification of suspension. That suspension was from almost a year ago. I'm not online 24/7, but from what I've gathered, year old Hover behavior is not the kind of behavior he exhibits currently. He has a telnet application open, and there's not a negative consensus surrounding him. It's mixed, but if he truly hadn't learned his lesson, then he wouldn't have stood a chance. I still don't see how his behavior was questionable. The only line that confuses me is "I didn't respond." I would hardly call that lying, though. He did not fabricate anything, either. He was talking to Lily about her identity. If he disclosed it to you, he gets suspended, if not, you suspend him. The "fuck off" thing was from about 5-6 minutes before any of this even started. It has nothing to do with the suicide messages. It's just plain confusing in the context of this thread. And no, saying "fuck off" once is not worth a suspension. I still don't see anything I would deem "unacceptable behavior." I really don't. He flat out said: [03:16:17] [Server thread/INFO]: HoverTechV3 issued server command: /o no he wasn't saying he wanted to kill himself... He explained the suicide bit to you several times. --- The reason for this suspension has shifted to "he was disrespectful while we questioned him (which is completely false), he committed other misconduct (which you have not backed up), and he still hasn't learned his lesson from his year old suspension." I still see no grounds for suspension. My opinion remains, the suspension should be lifted. Not at all, as the suspension's reasoning states: Hover was suspended for conspiring with operators to 'keep information hidden' from other administrators - quote unquote "I won't say anything to anyone[,] though." The suspended administrator intentionally failed to communicate with myself, and other administrators [...].
Furthermore, I also see references to the 'revealing of the identity of Lily' in your post, which I believe are entirely invalidated. ---- I believe that the context of the operator's content is abnormal; however, if that were solely in question, Hover wouldn't be suspended. The content is not questioned; but the manner in which Hover handled receiving such content, and any explanation (or lack thereof) from Hover - even following his removal. |
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pj
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Post by pj on Apr 11, 2018 4:41:47 GMT
Not at all, as the suspension's reasoning states: Hover was suspended for conspiring with operators to 'keep information hidden' from other administrators - quote unquote "I won't say anything to anyone[,] though." The suspended administrator intentionally failed to communicate with myself, and other administrators [...].
Furthermore, I also see references to the 'revealing of the identity of Lily' in your post, which I believe are entirely invalidated. [20:15:26] [main/INFO]: [CHAT] [ADMIN] HoverTechV3 [SA]: He was quoting a past message [03:16:17] [Server thread/INFO]: HoverTechV3 issued server command: /o no he wasn't saying he wanted to kill himself... --- In your previous post, you said that "It's clear that his story doesn't match up." This implies that there was an intent to mislead. I don't believe Hover tried to mislead you. Rather, he just didn't know whether or not he would get in trouble for talking about Lily's identity. |
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mibbzz
Club 4000 Member
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Post by mibbzz on Apr 11, 2018 5:09:42 GMT
This really does not look valid in the slightest
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_flippy
Veteran Member
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Post by _flippy on Apr 11, 2018 5:27:49 GMT
And people complained about me suspending tohgamer
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Post by Drunkle Qrow (BuscusFan) on Apr 11, 2018 6:15:10 GMT
I agree with Hockey, this really isn't suspension worthy
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Cowgomooo12
Club 4000 Member
Vaarwel, afscheid
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Post by Cowgomooo12 on Apr 11, 2018 6:58:14 GMT
Darth is reinstated and Pramire's suspension is invalidated. The inability to respond in a quick manner does not constituent the act of misleading. Defining misleading giving the wrong idea or impression through the act of intentional deception or falsehood. Therefore, the beginning claim of intentional failure to communicate is not accurate and thus does not apply. Darth was not required to ban the user due to the fact there was no intention from the user to commit suicide. As explained in the messages, Darth said that "[the user] wasn't saying he wanted to kill himself...". Therefore, the user's actions is a Section 3 offense. Darth used his administrative discretion and decided to not act upon the user's conversation. Administrators have the ability to judge a situation and decide the best recourse of action. For example, although speeding is a traffic violation and against the law, it is at the officer's discretion to act upon that violation. The police may decide to ticket the offender, verbally warn the offender, or do nothing at all. Darth decided the best course of action was to do nothing at all. In the given circumstances, this is not deemed as a suspendable offense. Outside of the decision from the Executive administrators (speaking as a lone individual), I feel the best course of action should have been to warn the user. Likewise, I feel the best course of action for Pramire would have been to warn Darth. Pramire is a new Senior Administrator and thus the idea of suspending an administrator is very appealing. However, I feel it would have been better for all individuals involved (including the user) to warn the Darth instead. Reaffirming the status quo, if a superior administrator decides to override a lower ranked administrators decision (discretion), the superior administrator may do so as they deem necessary and proper. For future reference, Executive Administrators may view the Executive discussion here: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/59566__ Edit: This decision does not grant or deny a Probationary Senior Administrator's ability to suspend. This is still disputed.
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inFAmas97
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Post by inFAmas97 on Apr 11, 2018 8:45:17 GMT
He sent me an explanation in a PM. This is closed but I still felt I should post it for the record. Here is his side of the story:
"Okay, so irix just suspended me for failing to explain a situation. Here is what happened, at least from my perception. I was talking to LilyDaCat about how DisignusBlocks exposed her past identity and got suspended for it. We were talking about why she was permbanned, and if she should have been permbanned. The reason I didn't immediately ban her was because I assumed that since irix suspended the person who exposed her, he would know who she was and made the choice to not ban her.
Anyways, she quoted a past message she sent (the suicide threat) that caused her to get permbanned. irix banned her because he thought she was actively making suicide threats, and asked me to explain. I was hesitant to explain the reason why she was sending me that message, because I worried that if I did I would be suspended for saying the name of her past identity (which I would need to say to provide a good enough explanation).
I was being asked multiple questions at once, and was also talking to people in real life, so I was having trouble keeping up. I was trying to explain how I was in a loop where if I gave a good explanation, I would be suspended, and if I didn't give any explanation, I would also be suspended. My mistake was not inquiring about LilyDaCat being on the server, and I will own up to that. However, I do not think what I did is suspension worthy. I also do not believe that I was breaking the identity policy because of a PM markbyron sent my at one point in time (screenshots below). I can forward the PM to you if you would like.
imgur.com/a/ixWMr
Thanks."
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