Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 16, 2020 10:23:44 GMT
I've thought for many years about my philosophy on life, and how to describe it given that I have met very few people that think the same way I do. I eventually found a word to describe myself, a nihilist. I believe in a lack of meaning. In my opinion, we are not special, we weren't "created with a purpose" - we exist because of a random set of circumstances in a cloud of space dust. To the Universe, we are nothing. We aren't born with a purpose.
A lot of people feel nihilism is an unhealthy way to express depression, and stereotype nihilists as pessimistic hermits. For me, at least, that is not the case. I like the idea that we are insignificant, because that means we have (for practical purposes) an infinite sandbox to grow into. I like the idea that we aren't special, because it makes me value life more, knowing that the chances of our existence are infinitesimal and that we basically won the lottery of atomic formation.
I'm sure it's obvious that I don't believe in any deities (god), which essentially liberates me of any preconceived plan for my life. I have no purpose, so I get to choose my own purpose. The meaning of life is nothing, so we can make it what we want. Along those lines, I am curious what everyone else thinks about this. What's your religion (if you have one) and what is your take on the meaning of life and god?
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Michelle
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Post by Michelle on Aug 16, 2020 10:32:52 GMT
I believe in God but don't believe in the church
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shrimp
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Post by shrimp on Aug 16, 2020 13:13:53 GMT
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burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Aug 16, 2020 14:11:03 GMT
I am Christian
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 16, 2020 14:40:39 GMT
The core principle of the philosophical definition for "Nihilism" is the pessimism towards metaphysics in general. Saying that you like the idea that we arent' special then continue onwards saying that it makes you value life more is therefore intrinsically opposed to the very fundamentals of Nihilism. What you describe seems much more akin to existentialism wherein exist an anxiety towards the apparent meaningless of our world, and you should therefore strive to provide meaning for yourself.
If you want to explore this phisophical enquiry, then I highly suggest you start by reading some fiction books by Dostoevsky to get a hang on the central themes. If you like to read philosophy, then start with Kirkegaard, although he had some odd thoughts about determinism in regards to his own Christian beliefs, but that obviously due to the times, but read Enten-Eller (Either Or) & Sygdommen til døden (The Sickness Till Death) to get a good hang on it. If you want to delve deeply (and possible yourself to death), then read some Sartre (Being and Nothingness, existentialism is a Humanism") and Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morality)
Just reading Philosophy encyclopedias is also helpful
Ethical hedonism has always intrigued me, but I don't know if I would say it describes my "life philosophy".
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 16, 2020 15:20:04 GMT
The core principle of the philosophical definition for "Nihilism" is the pessimism towards metaphysics in general. Saying that you like the idea that we arent' special then continue onwards saying that it makes you value life more is therefore intrinsically opposed to the very fundamentals of Nihilism. What you describe seems much more akin to existentialism wherein exist an anxiety towards the apparent meaningless of our world, and you should therefore strive to provide meaning for yourself. If you want to explore this phisophical enquiry, then I highly suggest you start by reading some fiction books by Dostoevsky to get a hang on the central themes. If you like to read philosophy, then start with Kirkegaard, although he had some odd thoughts about determinism in regards to his own Christian beliefs, but that obviously due to the times, but read Enten-Eller (Either Or) & Sygdommen til døden (The Sickness Till Death) to get a good hang on it. If you want to delve deeply (and possible yourself to death), then read some Sartre (Being and Nothingness, existentialism is a Humanism") and Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morality) Just reading Philosophy encyclopedias is also helpful Ethical hedonism has always intrigued me, but I don't know if I would say it describes my "life philosophy". There is such a thing as optimistic nihilism, which is the ideology I subscribe to. The core value of nihilism is that life has no intrinsic meaning. This does not make nihilism inherently negative, that's a personal choice of the individual. An optimistic nihilist sees no embedded meaning in life, leaving them free to make their own meaning. The idea that life has no meaning is still present, which means this ideology still falls under the definition of nihilism. As I said, the pessimistic outlook is a personal choice of the individual, not the be-all-end-all. There are nihilists that participate in destructive self-indulgent activities, simply because of the "why not?" factor. But that's not a requirement of nihilism. I believe life has no meaning, and we should stop looking for the meaning that so many religions claim exists, and start making our own. I see it as liberation from the shackles of contradictory answers that religions give us. Surrendering to the idea that there are things we can't control, and focusing on making the most of the things we can control. Just because life has no meaning doesn't mean you can't value it. It's extremely lucky that we exist, but the universe doesn't care either way. So we might as well make the most of it while we can. The universe will die someday, and us along with it, even if we make it to the end and our civilizations harness black holes for energy. A pessimistic nihilist might believe the universe will end in heat death, or a big rip, where the universe will be a dark empty space for literally forever. An optimistic nihilist might believe the universe will collapse and a new big bang will happen. Both sides believe the universe WILL end/did, and so will we no matter what we do. Because the universe doesn't care about us. We could be the most advanced civilization in the universe and we'd still die, because that's the way the universe is.
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shrimp
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Post by shrimp on Aug 16, 2020 16:00:10 GMT
Personally, I'm not sure where I stand religiously. I identify as a practicing Catholic; however, I do find myself constantly as battle between logic and faith. For the longest time I guilted myself into doing the right thing, because I thought that if there was a higher being, then I would get into heaven.
However, as I continue to mature, I am increasingly being drawn to stoicism. The way I see it, living life to the fullest and living for others is the greatest thing you can do because if there is a God, then you will go to heaven. If not, you will have lived a virtuous life anyways and will be remembered for it.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 16, 2020 16:06:15 GMT
The core principle of the philosophical definition for "Nihilism" is the pessimism towards metaphysics in general. Saying that you like the idea that we arent' special then continue onwards saying that it makes you value life more is therefore intrinsically opposed to the very fundamentals of Nihilism. What you describe seems much more akin to existentialism wherein exist an anxiety towards the apparent meaningless of our world, and you should therefore strive to provide meaning for yourself. If you want to explore this phisophical enquiry, then I highly suggest you start by reading some fiction books by Dostoevsky to get a hang on the central themes. If you like to read philosophy, then start with Kirkegaard, although he had some odd thoughts about determinism in regards to his own Christian beliefs, but that obviously due to the times, but read Enten-Eller (Either Or) & Sygdommen til døden (The Sickness Till Death) to get a good hang on it. If you want to delve deeply (and possible yourself to death), then read some Sartre (Being and Nothingness, existentialism is a Humanism") and Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil, On the Genealogy of Morality) Just reading Philosophy encyclopedias is also helpful Ethical hedonism has always intrigued me, but I don't know if I would say it describes my "life philosophy". There is such a thing as optimistic nihilism, which is the ideology I subscribe to. The core value of nihilism is that life has no intrinsic meaning. This does not make nihilism inherently negative, that's a personal choice of the individual. An optimistic nihilist sees no embedded meaning in life, leaving them free to make their own meaning. The idea that life has no meaning is still present, which means this ideology still falls under the definition of nihilism. As I said, the pessimistic outlook is a personal choice of the individual, not the be-all-end-all. There are nihilists that participate in destructive self-indulgent activities, simply because of the "why not?" factor. But that's not a requirement of nihilism. I believe life has no meaning, and we should stop looking for the meaning that so many religions claim exists, and start making our own. I see it as liberation from the shackles of contradictory answers that religions give us. Surrendering to the idea that there are things we can't control, and focusing on making the most of the things we can control. Just because life has no meaning doesn't mean you can't value it. It's extremely lucky that we exist, but the universe doesn't care either way. So we might as well make the most of it while we can. The universe will die someday, and us along with it, even if we make it to the end and our civilizations harness black holes for energy. A pessimistic nihilist might believe the universe will end in heat death, or a big rip, where the universe will be a dark empty space for literally forever. An optimistic nihilist might believe the universe will collapse and a new big bang will happen. Both sides believe the universe WILL end/did, and so will we no matter what we do. Because the universe doesn't care about us. We could be the most advanced civilization in the universe and we'd still die, because that's the way the universe is. Optimistic Nihilism. The name in itself is an oxymoron. Optimism is to give value to something, Nihilism is the belief of a lack of value, a complete void of meaning. "Just because life has no meaning doesn't mean you can't value it" is paradoxical to the nth degree. In essence (lol), Existentialism is the journey to seeking meaning in a universe devoid of it. Commonly, Nihilism is used to describe the lack (or negation) of intrinsic value in a metaphysical sense. That is, any optimism in this context is not only baseless it is also self-negating. Going by the belief that you should cherish life is inherently against the core principle of Nihilism in that you are making up your own meaning where there is none. By living as though you are satisfied with the lack of meaning in the world means that you have now formed your own meaning because you are living as though there is one. "I recognize the lack of meaning in the world, but I still live as though there is" is essentially what one might describe Existentialism is, if we are going by a very reductionistic definition. Framed another way: Existentialism the pragmatic approach to Nihilism, because you continue to live with your own self-created meaning, even though you recognize that in essence there is none. We could also go by semantics: Nihilism entirely deals with truth and an objective nature for existence. Nihilism is an existential philosophy in contrast to Optimism, which is more of a moral philosophy (which Nihilism rejects because morals don't exist). Optimism can be described as a coping mechanism in regards to pain. The two don't deal with the same subject matter since Nihilism doesn't concern itself with what one "ought to do", because again, no values, ethics or morals objectively exist, therefore combining the two terms shows a lack of understanding of how philosophy works in a broad manner: Nihilism is a neutral (or non-existant) stance on values. There is no good or evil, no right or wrong, and the very nature of Optimism deals with a positive outlook on life makes it redundant in relation to Nihilism. Summarized, your notion of "Optimistic Nihilism" would be: "a philosophy in which nothing matters, therefore you are free to pursue any goals". Odlly reminiscent of Nietzsche's slave-master morality concept: when you reject meaning you no longer enslave yourself to the universe, and thus you become the ubermensch: a man in charge of his own destiny and thus avoiding the pitfalls of Moral Nihilism. To be optimistic is to hope and have faith in good things happening. Good is a value, and values do not exist according to a Nihilistic viewpoint: it is entirely meaningless.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 16, 2020 16:10:09 GMT
Personally, I'm not sure where I stand religiously. I identify as a practicing Catholic; however, I do find myself constantly as battle between logic and faith. For the longest time I guilted myself into doing the right thing, because I thought that if there was a higher being, then I would get into heaven. However, as I continue to mature, I am increasingly being drawn to stoicism. The way I see it, living life to the fullest and living for others is the greatest thing you can do because if there is a God, then you will go to heaven. If not, you will have lived a virtuous life anyways and will be remembered for it. Tbh who wants to go hang out with God if he doesn't like me touching my dick. Sounds like God is suppressing some gay urges. kinda gay
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97
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RIP Telnet
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Post by 97 on Aug 16, 2020 16:14:17 GMT
I was Catholic then I went Christianity. I do believe in Jesus (his hairstyle is amazing). I also don't believe in luck. Saying you had a lucky day isn't true because luck can't affect the outcome of your day. And I don't give a crap if I open an umbrella, or find a 4 lead clover. Because that just doesn't do anything. I also don't really believe in actual ghosts walking around. However my mother does. But I really don't think that all that paranormal activity stuff can happen. If the microwave stops while heating up a Hot Pocket. Then it wasn't Abraham Lincoln who did that. Yes I am aware that Christianity and Catholicism are similar
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Aug 16, 2020 16:19:09 GMT
I was Catholic then I went Christianity. I do believe in Jesus (his hairstyle is amazing). I also don't believe in luck. Saying you had a lucky day isn't true because luck can't affect the outcome of your day. And I don't give a crap if I open an umbrella, or find a 4 lead clover. Because that just doesn't do anything. I also don't really believe in actual ghosts walking around. However my mother does. But I really don't think that all that paranormal activity stuff can happen. If the microwave stops while heating up a Hot Pocket. Then it wasn't Abraham Lincoln who did that. Yes I am aware that Christianity and Catholicism are similar Why did you leave the Catholic Church?
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97
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Post by 97 on Aug 16, 2020 16:20:21 GMT
Why did you leave the Catholic Church? My Mom noticed that it was extremely quiet and boring at the church. Which is most likely normal.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Aug 16, 2020 17:53:13 GMT
There is such a thing as optimistic nihilism, which is the ideology I subscribe to. The core value of nihilism is that life has no intrinsic meaning. This does not make nihilism inherently negative, that's a personal choice of the individual. An optimistic nihilist sees no embedded meaning in life, leaving them free to make their own meaning. The idea that life has no meaning is still present, which means this ideology still falls under the definition of nihilism. As I said, the pessimistic outlook is a personal choice of the individual, not the be-all-end-all. There are nihilists that participate in destructive self-indulgent activities, simply because of the "why not?" factor. But that's not a requirement of nihilism. I believe life has no meaning, and we should stop looking for the meaning that so many religions claim exists, and start making our own. I see it as liberation from the shackles of contradictory answers that religions give us. Surrendering to the idea that there are things we can't control, and focusing on making the most of the things we can control. Just because life has no meaning doesn't mean you can't value it. It's extremely lucky that we exist, but the universe doesn't care either way. So we might as well make the most of it while we can. The universe will die someday, and us along with it, even if we make it to the end and our civilizations harness black holes for energy. A pessimistic nihilist might believe the universe will end in heat death, or a big rip, where the universe will be a dark empty space for literally forever. An optimistic nihilist might believe the universe will collapse and a new big bang will happen. Both sides believe the universe WILL end/did, and so will we no matter what we do. Because the universe doesn't care about us. We could be the most advanced civilization in the universe and we'd still die, because that's the way the universe is. Optimistic Nihilism. The name in itself is an oxymoron. Optimism is to give value to something, Nihilism is the belief of a lack of value, a complete void of meaning. "Just because life has no meaning doesn't mean you can't value it" is paradoxical to the nth degree. In essence (lol), Existentialism is the journey to seeking meaning in a universe devoid of it. Commonly, Nihilism is used to describe the lack (or negation) of intrinsic value in a metaphysical sense. That is, any optimism in this context is not only baseless it is also self-negating. Going by the belief that you should cherish life is inherently against the core principle of Nihilism in that you are making up your own meaning where there is none. By living as though you are satisfied with the lack of meaning in the world means that you have now formed your own meaning because you are living as though there is one. "I recognize the lack of meaning in the world, but I still live as though there is" is essentially what one might describe Existentialism is, if we are going by a very reductionistic definition. Framed another way: Existentialism the pragmatic approach to Nihilism, because you continue to live with your own self-created meaning, even though you recognize that in essence there is none. We could also go by semantics: Nihilism entirely deals with truth and an objective nature for existence. Nihilism is an existential philosophy in contrast to Optimism, which is more of a moral philosophy (which Nihilism rejects because morals don't exist). Optimism can be described as a coping mechanism in regards to pain. The two don't deal with the same subject matter since Nihilism doesn't concern itself with what one "ought to do", because again, no values, ethics or morals objectively exist, therefore combining the two terms shows a lack of understanding of how philosophy works in a broad manner: Nihilism is a neutral (or non-existant) stance on values. There is no good or evil, no right or wrong, and the very nature of Optimism deals with a positive outlook on life makes it redundant in relation to Nihilism. Summarized, your notion of "Optimistic Nihilism" would be: "a philosophy in which nothing matters, therefore you are free to pursue any goals". Odlly reminiscent of Nietzsche's slave-master morality concept: when you reject meaning you no longer enslave yourself to the universe, and thus you become the ubermensch: a man in charge of his own destiny and thus avoiding the pitfalls of Moral Nihilism. To be optimistic is to hope and have faith in good things happening. Good is a value, and values do not exist according to a Nihilistic viewpoint: it is entirely meaningless. In order for “optimistic nihilism” to be an oxymoron, “nihilism” would have to be inherently pessimistic. This is not the case; this actually cannot be the case: a rejection of absolute values or meaning cannot also say "this is [absolutely] bad”. Nihilism is inherently neutral because it rejects such absolute judgments, and therefore can be interpreted optimistically or pessimistically. A pessimistic interpretation might be: “in the absence of inherent meaning, there is no reason to live”. (However, this would be difficult to defend as it implies that any reason to live must be inherent to reality, which is an iffy claim). An optimistic interpretation is that “in the absence of inherent meaning, we are free to create our own”. When the popular connotations of the term “nihilism” are avoided, not only is the term "optimistic nihilism" not an oxymoron, but it in fact can't be one without becoming self-contradictory. It is often useful in general, when evaluating a claim, to avoid using possibly-charged terms and replace them with their definitions. This will usually make the assumptions and reasoning involved in the claim clearer.
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