miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 18, 2020 7:32:47 GMT
I have never gotten to an actual conclusion with the above question. I can only see three actual ways this could go, and none of them are good. 1) Trans-atheletes compete with CIS-gendered-atheletes. 2) Trans-athletes compete only with other trans-athletes 3) Trans-athletes don’t compete unless steroids are allowed. There are glaring issues with each of the choices. The first being obviously that this would lead to a unfair competitive advantage to the trans-athletes whom are now competing against the opposite sex. This would be the equevivlant of taking performance-enhancing-drugs (PED), considering the obvious fact of tendon-, muscle-, bone- and overall body structure could be equated for a woman taking PED’s for ten years straight, and then stopping a year before a powerlifting competition. Of course there’s the question of how much is lost during conversion in regards to the above-mentioned advantages, but it is hard to deny the fact that at least a big chunk of natural advantage is left in your body. This also only helps fuel right-wing snowflakes in their cultural war on the left, thus putting more people off the idea of trans rights. If trans-athletes were to only compete with other trans-athletes, then we run in to the situation that less than 1 in 200 are trans in Western countries, thus further excluding trans-persons from society even further by giving them a completely separate league to compete in. This also clearly ignores that male > female =/= female > male – so should there also be a separate league in this instance? You see how this all rapidly gets convoluted Last option is to level the playing field by allowing the use of PEDs in competitions, but this comes with a whole heap of ethical questions and is obviously not a feasible solution to this non-problem. I say this is a non-problem because this actual issue is mostly brought up by conservative SJWs whom want to shun trans-persons and leftists by showing these examples and spouting that once a man always a man. I could of course just google myself to some shit philosophical essay on the matter, but I would much rather discuss this with the 13-year olds in the TF community. www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig |
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 18, 2020 7:35:13 GMT
I always found it weird how sports were segregated between male and female. Imo, you just let everyone compete in the same leagues.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 18, 2020 7:37:16 GMT
I always found it weird how sports were segregated between male and female. Imo, you just let everyone compete in the same leagues. Then you quickly notice that in any sports wherein any of the above-mentioned criteria involved are dominated by males. I don't think this is fair to not let great female athletes show their skill in a level playing field. But I definitely see where you are coming from. |
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tozzit
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Post by tozzit on Jul 18, 2020 9:07:55 GMT
i say fuck it and pump everyone full of drugs and everyone compete. I wanna see a man run 100m in a second on cocaine
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Super
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Post by Super on Jul 18, 2020 19:25:45 GMT
I think if they have the physical capabilities and decent skills, they should be able to go for it.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 18, 2020 21:43:06 GMT
I think if they have the physical capabilities and decent skills, they should be able to go for it. So if a man > woman goes and competes with other biological women that's okay? |
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jul 18, 2020 22:34:49 GMT
They should separate sports by biological gender, 'male' and 'female' rather than 'men' and 'women'.
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Post by ???DaddyIndica on Jul 19, 2020 1:40:58 GMT
I think it is very unfortunate to see how this is a deep discussion thread and people aren't being serious. This is a topic I take very seriously as I run track, and even if you don't want to admit it, girls just have slower times than guys on average. It's not sexist, it's the truth. For example, the time I would have had to have on the 300m hurdles last year to qualify to state would have been 5-10 seconds less than what girls had. That may not sound like a lot, but anyone who runs as competition understands. I've even seen the articles about how girls are suing the school district because they saw 2 guys who didn't do too good their freshman year, and then became girls and came first place in every event to the point that the girls who raced against them almost gave up because they'd be fighting for a third and below spot and not a first and second place spot like it should have been. A lot of the athletes I am close with, on both sides of the gender plain agree that it should be biological gender only. You can claim it's not right morally, but it's completely unfair to the girls who got cheated out of a state qualifier by two guys who were mediocre track athletes when they were still 'male'
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jul 19, 2020 1:41:49 GMT
They should separate sports by biological gender, 'male' and 'female' rather than 'men' and 'women'. Read the thread |
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Michelle
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ok
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Post by Michelle on Jul 19, 2020 2:32:15 GMT
yes let them compete in the genders they transitioned to
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Jul 19, 2020 2:42:58 GMT
yes let them compete in the genders they transitioned to This is a useless response because it takes this thread's rhetorical question and ascribes a yes/no answer without any sort of explanation. |
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Michelle
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ok
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Post by Michelle on Jul 19, 2020 2:45:33 GMT
yes let them compete in the genders they transitioned to This is a useless response because it takes this thread's rhetorical question and ascribes a yes/no answer without any sort of explanation. Lol, well to me it is simple. Let them compete to the gender they transitioned to luv. |
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Jul 19, 2020 2:53:28 GMT
This is a useless response because it takes this thread's rhetorical question and ascribes a yes/no answer without any sort of explanation. Lol, well to me it is simple. Let them compete to the gender they transitioned to luv. Repeating your comment doesn't change the lack of explanation here. How does this address the biological advantage which males (keep in mind that in this context, "males" refers to biological males as this is an argument of physical ability) have over females? |
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 19, 2020 14:34:25 GMT
This is a useless response because it takes this thread's rhetorical question and ascribes a yes/no answer without any sort of explanation. Lol, well to me it is simple. Let them compete to the gender they transitioned to luv. People who are physiologically male at birth have biological advantages on the playing field, and that's been scientifically proven. You believing that all trans people should be able to participate in their transitioned-to genders' league is ignorantly overlooking the scientific evidence there is that proves otherwise. The reason sports was gender-segregated was because of the countless scientific studies that prove that even after lowering testosterone levels, the MTF's still retain a level of testosterone. In other words, the studies that exist for strength suggest that about one-tenth of the male-vs-female advantage is removed. That is nowhere close to what would ensure fairness. It means that “some” above means “most of”. And I get it... you want transgender people to be equally treated, and so do I, but it does allow for advantage and until this can be severely mitigated, I understand why they aren't. As for the question at hand, it's a really rocky question with no fair answer. |
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Post by ???DaddyIndica on Jul 19, 2020 15:18:17 GMT
Lol, well to me it is simple. Let them compete to the gender they transitioned to luv. People who are physiologically male at birth have biological advantages on the playing field, and that's been scientifically proven. You believing that all trans people should be able to participate in their transitioned-to genders' league is ignorantly overlooking the scientific evidence there is that proves otherwise. The reason sports was gender-segregated was because of the countless scientific studies that prove that even after lowering testosterone levels, the MTF's still retain a level of testosterone. In other words, the studies that exist for strength suggest that about one-tenth of the male-vs-female advantage is removed. That is nowhere close to what would ensure fairness. It means that “some” above means “most of”. And I get it... you want transgender people to be equally treated, and so do I, but it does allow for advantage and until this can be severely mitigated, I understand why they aren't. As for the question at hand, it's a really rocky question with no fair answer. Something I would like to contribute to this: how many successful male to female trans athletes are there as compared to female to male trans athletes? Significantly less, if any. And like I said in my post above, as a male I have to have significantly faster times than females to qualify to state, and these aren’t randomly generated, they’re set based on season times and what people are actually getting in the events. I don’t mean to gatekeep or anything, but this is one of those things where if you don’t compete you can’t really just say ‘trans athletes should compete in the gender they want to’ because it gives them a very unfair advantage. I’ll be honest, I’d say there was a good chance I would have qualified to state this year with records that took me an entire year to break, but as a female I would have qualified, as a sophomore, with my times from freshman year. |
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