elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 15, 2020 21:32:38 GMT
Being one of the three admins selected to run an admin crew, and having access to the other two crew channels as a discord mod, I have managed to get some insight into how they operate and the issues they have.
There are two main issues with how they currently operate:
- There are too many, 2/3 of them are currently inactive (partially my fault, I've been really busy but nevertheless, point still stands) - The second, and more important point, in my opinion, is that they are mainly targeted at OP's that wish to become admins. Many of the OP's I see being recruited to these crews (this is a generalization, however, it's still true for the most part) just played the server for fun. They were asked if they wanted to join this admin crew and they accepted. They are then invited to join these training sessions that provide training which is really intended for admins. This pushes a narrative that the end goal on this server is to become an admin. This is a step in the wrong direction.
What I suggest is the following:
- We merge all three 'crews' into 1 - It would be ran either by 1 crew leader, or by the 3 separate crew leaders working together collaboratively which would be a lot more effective. - We remove the 'member' system of the crew. - OP's are no longer allowed to be a part of it, the crew would function as an 'Admin Training Division' of sorts
The way it would work is, if an admin reinstates or a new admin is accepted, they are assigned to this 'admin training crew' to be (re)trained. This section will remain the same: "If you are punished for abuse of your administrative power you may be forcefully assigned to a Crew to "rehabilitate" you if you are not already in a Crew." However you are simply pointed to the 1 'admin training crew' that we have and are retrained as a form of final warning, and "If you keep having issues after being "rehabilitated" you may lose your rank permanently."
TL;DR: Effectively, we would have 1 'Admin Training Division' of sorts instead of 3 Admin Crews that would simply (re)train or rehabilitate new/reinstated admins or admins that have been reported for abuse.
|
|
nick
Veteran Member
Posts: 766
|
Post by nick on Jul 15, 2020 21:39:14 GMT
Vouch, given that I don't use the TF Crew Channel. I still find it unnecessary to have much ops yet close to no admins in a sense that the system was implemented for admins to get (re)trained or be put in rehab.
I would like to add that the new admins and returning admins should be required to join the training system to ensure that they're capable of performing the administration duties.
|
|
97
Veteran Member
RIP Telnet
Posts: 889
| Likes: 679
|
Post by 97 on Jul 15, 2020 21:43:16 GMT
I vouch for this.
|
|
Taze
Veteran Member
On vacation/holidays till August 11th
Posts: 315
| Likes: 233
|
Post by Taze on Jul 15, 2020 22:05:03 GMT
Vouch
My crew already was sort of dead looking at my playercount but it seems not only my crew isn’t going as aspected. I really like the suggestion you brought up here and it would fix the (system of) admin crews.
|
|
Gommeh
Veteran Member
dammit ryan and rylie
Posts: 2,744
| Likes: 778
|
Post by Gommeh on Jul 15, 2020 22:08:04 GMT
Vouch for Taze's and Nick's reasons.
|
|
burger
Registered
fionn is overated
Posts: 0
| Likes: 446
|
Post by burger on Jul 15, 2020 23:12:38 GMT
Vouch
|
|
AshazTGA
Veteran Member
Posts: 317
| Likes: 102
|
Post by AshazTGA on Jul 15, 2020 23:20:22 GMT
Vouch. As Nick said, it's basically rehab
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jul 16, 2020 8:08:39 GMT
Object... This literally defeats the object of the admin crews.
If you want an admin training division, the EAO should be setting that up separate to this.
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 16, 2020 8:30:20 GMT
Object... This literally defeats the object of the admin crews. If you want an admin training division, the EAO should be setting that up separate to this. Admin training is also part of the crew's responsibility, I think admin crews as they are run right know should be changed because it's problematic. This suggestion would eliminate the problem in my eyes and would allow for admin training to still be possible. This is just a suggestion, if the admin officers don't want to implement this they don't have to. I think the issue is clearly present seeing as all 3 crew leaders have shown support for the suggestion
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jul 16, 2020 8:41:15 GMT
Object... This literally defeats the object of the admin crews. If you want an admin training division, the EAO should be setting that up separate to this. Admin training is also part of the crew's responsibility, I think admin crews as they are run right know should be changed because it's problematic. This suggestion would eliminate the problem in my eyes and would allow for admin training to still be possible. This is just a suggestion, if the admin officers don't want to implement this they don't have to. I think the issue is clearly present seeing as all 3 crew leaders have shown support for the suggestion I'm not saying there isn't an issue with crews, there always has been and it's why they were removed in the first place, but this suggestion fundamentally changes the entire concept of crews and calls them the same thing. I have no issue with us binning crews and having a training program (Well I kinda do because actually it has the same issue as crews do normally) but you get my idea. Lets stop calling stuff it's not because there's a lot of stuff on here where we have changed the scope so much from the name that it's just not representative of what people do anymore.
|
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on Jul 16, 2020 9:10:21 GMT
Admin training is also part of the crew's responsibility, I think admin crews as they are run right know should be changed because it's problematic. This suggestion would eliminate the problem in my eyes and would allow for admin training to still be possible. This is just a suggestion, if the admin officers don't want to implement this they don't have to. I think the issue is clearly present seeing as all 3 crew leaders have shown support for the suggestion I'm not saying there isn't an issue with crews, there always has been and it's why they were removed in the first place, but this suggestion fundamentally changes the entire concept of crews and calls them the same thing. I have no issue with us binning crews and having a training program (Well I kinda do because actually it has the same issue as crews do normally) but you get my idea. Lets stop calling stuff it's not because there's a lot of stuff on here where we have changed the scope so much from the name that it's just not representative of what people do anymore. I see where you're coming from, perhaps a renaming of the whole thing could solve that issue? Regarding having the same issues as crews, I don't think it would, the way this would function is it would have no 'members' as such, the EAO could just assign people to this training division to get trained for whatever reason, be it reinstatement, new admin, etc.
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on Jul 16, 2020 10:12:09 GMT
I'm not saying there isn't an issue with crews, there always has been and it's why they were removed in the first place, but this suggestion fundamentally changes the entire concept of crews and calls them the same thing. I have no issue with us binning crews and having a training program (Well I kinda do because actually it has the same issue as crews do normally) but you get my idea. Lets stop calling stuff it's not because there's a lot of stuff on here where we have changed the scope so much from the name that it's just not representative of what people do anymore. I see where you're coming from, perhaps a renaming of the whole thing could solve that issue? Regarding having the same issues as crews, I don't think it would, the way this would function is it would have no 'members' as such, the EAO could just assign people to this training division to get trained for whatever reason, be it reinstatement, new admin, etc. Possibly, either way it's not admin crews is my point. And the reason I Say it'll have the same problem is a few: 1) You can't mandate people attend training, that's just how you piss admins off and loose your staff team. 2) Whoever ends up running the training will inevitably get bored like every other time we've done training programs and it'll die off. 3) Most of the people that do the training, are often no better than those being trained. And those are the ones off the top of my head. We've tried this time and time again, and every time it just ends up failing horribly.
|
|
zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
|
Post by zeseryu on Jul 17, 2020 3:50:26 GMT
The original ideas for admin crews was a resource for hopeful operators who wanted to become admin could get pre-training.
The crew leader could give insight on the operators admin application when they did eventually apply.
I don't see why we have to remove the ability for operators to join.
This is exactly why I was reluctant for crews in the first place, admins don't really need a dedicated system to train them. There's nothing for admin crews to do if you just want to train/re-train admins.
"They are then invited to join these training sessions that provide training which is really intended for admins"
I don't really get this. You know you have operators within your crew, why would you cater it towards current admins. That's like going into english class and being tested on algebra. Make your training catered to those operators who joined.
|
|
|
Post by zekurt on Jul 17, 2020 4:07:02 GMT
Object for zeseryu's reason
|
|
|
Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Jul 17, 2020 5:10:23 GMT
Vouch, the current crew system i feel like is dieing, when i was part of elmons crew there was only ever 1 training session, and other than that we never really did anything
|
|