AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 15, 2020 21:24:17 GMT
The poll is kinda messed up and I executed this suggestion poorly; I'm going to revoke this and make a new thread tomorrow with much more detail.
Also, if I was to update this it would be a mess as the votes would be scattered everywhere.
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nick
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Post by nick on Jul 15, 2020 21:31:36 GMT
The poll is kinda messed up and I executed this suggestion poorly; I'm going to revoke this and make a new thread tomorrow with much more detail. Also, if I was to update this it would be a mess as the votes would be scattered everywhere. No need, people disagree with the most votes being "Nope" It makes no different if you make a new thread or not, you may as well get the same results.
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AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 15, 2020 22:04:27 GMT
The poll is kinda messed up and I executed this suggestion poorly; I'm going to revoke this and make a new thread tomorrow with much more detail. Also, if I was to update this it would be a mess as the votes would be scattered everywhere. No need, people disagree with the most votes being "Nope" It makes no different if you make a new thread or not, you may as well get the same results. Its a different issue of the policy
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nick
Veteran Member
Posts: 766
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Post by nick on Jul 15, 2020 22:20:54 GMT
No need, people disagree with the most votes being "Nope" It makes no different if you make a new thread or not, you may as well get the same results. Its a different issue of the policy Then discuss it here, on this thread. No need to go around and make another thread about the same issue or another problem that is related to the original thread. The policy looks fine, so, if you have any questions and would like to discuss other issues related to the original post then it's better off doing it here then making 10 other threads about the same problem but in different sections.
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AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 15, 2020 23:00:48 GMT
Okay so I agree strongly with Wild here, we need to sort out something for a no confidence vote.
If a portion of the community, not restricted to full admins, feels like the owner isn't doing his job, there should be a method of no confidence. I will show the system tomorrow as it's on my PC, but I'm writing this to stop this thread from getting locked.
This is NOT focused on Seth, it's focused on the future of TF. We could have an owner failing to do their duties at any time
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zeseryu
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Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 15, 2020 23:35:10 GMT
Okay so I agree strongly with Wild here, we need to sort out something for a no confidence vote. If a portion of the community, not restricted to full admins, feels like the owner isn't doing his job, there should be a method of no confidence. I will show the system tomorrow as it's on my PC, but I'm writing this to stop this thread from getting locked. This is NOT focused on Seth, it's focused on the future of TF. We could have an owner failing to do their duties at any time Okay lets say Seth is failing to do his duties in the future, and we do this change to the ownership policy. Can we actually make Seth hand over the server if he doesn't want to? No i dont think we can. Seth owns and pays for the server and I dont think there's anything we can do to take it from him. We could stop recognizing him as owner but we don't even need a policy to do that.
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jul 15, 2020 23:40:31 GMT
Okay so I agree strongly with Wild here, we need to sort out something for a no confidence vote. If a portion of the community, not restricted to full admins, feels like the owner isn't doing his job, there should be a method of no confidence. I will show the system tomorrow as it's on my PC, but I'm writing this to stop this thread from getting locked. This is NOT focused on Seth, it's focused on the future of TF. We could have an owner failing to do their duties at any time Okay lets say Seth is failing to do his duties in the future, and we do this change to the ownership policy. Can we actually make Seth hand over the server if he doesn't want to? No i dont think we can. Seth owns and pays for the server and I dont think there's anything we can do to take it from him. We could stop recognizing him as owner but we don't even need a policy to do that. Seth doesn't own the domain, nor does he own the forums. It could be taken, just would require a high bar to be met to do so, as was the case with Seth even becoming owner in the first place
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 15, 2020 23:54:45 GMT
Okay lets say Seth is failing to do his duties in the future, and we do this change to the ownership policy. Can we actually make Seth hand over the server if he doesn't want to? No i dont think we can. Seth owns and pays for the server and I dont think there's anything we can do to take it from him. We could stop recognizing him as owner but we don't even need a policy to do that. Seth doesn't own the domain, nor does he own the forums. It could be taken, just would require a high bar to be met to do so, as was the case with Seth even becoming owner in the first place The high bar was windows completely vanishing, not him still be active and "failing to do his duties" which can be argued he was doing before he went MIA
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jul 16, 2020 0:07:16 GMT
Seth doesn't own the domain, nor does he own the forums. It could be taken, just would require a high bar to be met to do so, as was the case with Seth even becoming owner in the first place The high bar was windows completely vanishing, not him still be active and "failing to do his duties" which can be argued he was doing before he went MIA Your statement was about making Seth turn over the server, it's not about making Seth do anything, it's about the others who control other aspects of the server. That's what I was responding to.
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zeseryu
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ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jul 16, 2020 0:09:28 GMT
The high bar was windows completely vanishing, not him still be active and "failing to do his duties" which can be argued he was doing before he went MIA Your statement was about making Seth turn over the server, it's not about making Seth do anything, it's about the others who control other aspects of the server. That's what I was responding to. Yes and the original post i responded to has "This is NOT focused on Seth, it's focused on the future of TF. We could have an owner failing to do their duties at any time"
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Gommeh
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dammit ryan and rylie
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Post by Gommeh on Jul 16, 2020 2:16:12 GMT
I believe that OP's do deserve the right to vote for owner just like they do for admin applications as they make up an integral part of the server. However, I also think everything else about the ownership policy should stay the same.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 16, 2020 8:12:13 GMT
Okay so I agree strongly with Wild here, we need to sort out something for a no confidence vote. If a portion of the community, not restricted to full admins, feels like the owner isn't doing his job, there should be a method of no confidence. I will show the system tomorrow as it's on my PC, but I'm writing this to stop this thread from getting locked. This is NOT focused on Seth, it's focused on the future of TF. We could have an owner failing to do their duties at any time Okay lets say Seth is failing to do his duties in the future, and we do this change to the ownership policy. Can we actually make Seth hand over the server if he doesn't want to? No i dont think we can. Seth owns and pays for the server and I dont think there's anything we can do to take it from him. We could stop recognizing him as owner but we don't even need a policy to do that. Actually we can... You go to Mark and ask him to transfer the domain control to someone else, and someone else hosts the server. It's the entire point of Mark retaining that access and having someone who's official role is to archive and backup the server who is independent to Seth. This was a key part of the ownership policy to ensure we always had an owner who was able to run the server in the way the community wanted to, and crucially had to be able to fund it on their own or through some form of partnership, they should not need to rely on donations to run the core of the server.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 16, 2020 8:13:44 GMT
The poll is kinda messed up and I executed this suggestion poorly; I'm going to revoke this and make a new thread tomorrow with much more detail. Also, if I was to update this it would be a mess as the votes would be scattered everywhere. No need, people disagree with the most votes being "Nope" It makes no different if you make a new thread or not, you may as well get the same results. Actually if the poll was poorly worded (Like a lot here are) you can ask the same question in a slightly different way and get vastly different results... Happens all the time. It's why making polls in industry is a bit of a skill a lot of people lack.
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AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 16, 2020 10:05:31 GMT
The ownership policy is crucial for TotalFreedom, a month ago people were saying we look stupid with it, but it actually shows we're willing to take action if our owner disappears or something happens. Currently, our server is going on a hill of positive change, restoring the former glory with newer features. This is why we should also restore the ownership policy in its best way. I get the fact that Seth is a brilliant owner, he does a lot of stuff for TotalFreedom too, but any owner can take a bad step at any time and continue on a bad path, until they no longer are fit to run the server. As Wild has explained, even if Seth was removed because of no confidence, the new owner would have access to everything needed to continue running TF. If we are to follow a system, here's an idea: Stage 1 - pressing charges Make a document and list the following things: The list of charges to trigger a no confidence vote (at least 5 valid reasons which show the owner is abusing their position, harming TotalFreedom and any aliases) Attach proof of each charge List 10 admins who support this Send to the Executive Admin Officer and the current owner
Stage 2 - Owner Defense Within 72 hours from the charges being sent out, the Owner has a window to send out his response to the charges. The Senior Admins will vote on if we should allow the community to proceed to stage 3, or if the Owner has proved his point. The Owner must be in the vote as a spectator only. This means that we should follow a vouch/object system, with strict moderation.
Stage 3 - General community vote If the Senior Admin team voted that the charges are correct, then stage 3 should take place 72 hours after the approval of the Admin Officer. In the event, the charges will be presented again in front of all of the community, then the Owner will present their defensive points.
After that, the community will vote 1 time. If the vote is successful, and over 85% of the voters have voted that the Owner should be removed, the Owner has 1 week to leave his position. They will no longer retain admin status after the 1 week. Should they try to stay in their rank, the Admin Officer will deal with them.
NOTE: For the vote to count, at least 50 people need to vote (subject to change)
This is just a draft of the section.
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fionn
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elmon sucks
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Post by fionn on Jul 16, 2020 10:12:47 GMT
Should they try to stay in their rank, the Admin Officer will deal with them. How? Your entire system is redundant, confusing, and really horribly written. The one we have right now is perfect. Why are we voting to change something to a that of lesser quality?
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