Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:09:10 GMT
First off, this is NOT the same as my previous suggestion. While I still think the merge would be good, it's clear that we're not quite ready for that. This suggestion is simple, in addition to those who are currently 'Telnet Admins' I would suggest we enable Super admins to access the remote console. In this suggestion, rather than to merge the ranks and therefore the permissions with them, we would retain the exact permissions we currently grant to the admins, it just allows Super admins to access Telnet instead of having to be in game. Admins can already use apps like Minechat so don't have to be in game (Well you get me), so I don't see a reason we shouldn't give super admins access to administer if they're not in the game. I'm struggling to see any drawbacks of doing this, we don't grant them any additional actual permissions, just another way to administrate... Your support is of course appreciated! EDIT - To Clarify I am not proposing we do anything more than enable telnet access for all admins, this quote sums it up Wild is suggesting we allow Supers to use telnet, but only with the ability to use commands that they would already have access to (e.g they can GTFO someone from telnet, but not /saconfig add). They would not gain any new permissions, besides the ability to use their existing permissions from telnet. It would in essence be very similar to using Minechat to administrate remotely from a text-based GUI.
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Luke
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Go home to your family, Neo
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Post by Luke on Jul 10, 2020 15:23:17 GMT
I've actually tested it before, due to a bug if you're on telnet and you get set to super, it doesn't disconnect you. Permissions are all sound, so it won't be difficult to do this.
This isn't me casting a vote, just an FYI
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:30:23 GMT
It would also be appreciated if people can reply with why they've chosen what they've voted for... If people aren't willing to have a sensible discussion about these things I'll just stop creating them with polls on because it's a waste of everyones time...
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nick
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Post by nick on Jul 10, 2020 15:35:40 GMT
I have mixed feelings about giving Super admins access to telnet, I currently don't trust most Super admins with moderating the server let alone giving them access to telnet.
What made you come up with this suggestion?
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:39:57 GMT
I have mixed feelings about giving Super admins access to telnet, I currently don't trust most Super admins with moderating the server let alone giving them access to telnet. What made you come up with this suggestion? The reason for the suggestion is I struggle to see the difference between a super using something like log viewer or command spy... I just don't see why we should not give all of our admins as many tools to administrate as possible. The argument of not trusting admins I feel is a different problem, this is purely around enabling more tools. I really don't understand why we don't already do this, it's just unnecessarily restricting what admins can do. There are other tools out there admins use (Like Minechat) that effectively do this already, this just makes it easier for everyone. I also don't really see a drawback, if the permissions are identical (And they are for this suggestion) and they are two separate ranks, I'd really like to know why people don't feel that we can't do this... It is no different to someone being in game..?
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burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Jul 10, 2020 15:40:29 GMT
I have mixed feelings about giving Super admins access to telnet, I currently don't trust most Super admins with moderating the server let alone giving them access to telnet. What made you come up with this suggestion? I don't think sa's will have permissions to do anything but rather just moderate the server while not ingame. I agree however that most supers really can't be that trusted
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:43:00 GMT
I agree however that most supers really can't be that trusted Then we should remove them... Immediately... Trueing Supers to administrate is absolutely nothing to do with this suggestion... If you can't trust a super admin to administer on the console, we can't trust them to administer in game and we should move for them to be removed with immediate affect...
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nick
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Post by nick on Jul 10, 2020 15:45:46 GMT
I have mixed feelings about giving Super admins access to telnet, I currently don't trust most Super admins with moderating the server let alone giving them access to telnet. What made you come up with this suggestion? The reason for the suggestion is I struggle to see the difference between a super using something like log viewer or command spy... I just don't see why we should not give all of our admins as many tools to administrate as possible. The argument of not trusting admins I feel is a different problem, this is purely around enabling more tools. I really don't understand why we don't already do this, it's just unnecessarily restricting what admins can do. There are other tools out there admins use (Like Minechat) that effectively do this already, this just makes it easier for everyone. I also don't really see a drawback, if the permissions are identical (And they are for this suggestion) and they are two separate ranks, I'd really like to know why people don't feel that we can't do this... It is no different to someone being in game..? I find no reason to give Super admins access to telnet because they're not trained for it and also that would cause a security risk and a higher rating of abuse via telnet by super admins. What's wrong with Super admins just moderating in-game? It's better that way then giving out a tool that could be used in a wrong manner. Have you conducted any tests before making this suggestion?
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:51:34 GMT
The reason for the suggestion is I struggle to see the difference between a super using something like log viewer or command spy... I just don't see why we should not give all of our admins as many tools to administrate as possible. The argument of not trusting admins I feel is a different problem, this is purely around enabling more tools. I really don't understand why we don't already do this, it's just unnecessarily restricting what admins can do. There are other tools out there admins use (Like Minechat) that effectively do this already, this just makes it easier for everyone. I also don't really see a drawback, if the permissions are identical (And they are for this suggestion) and they are two separate ranks, I'd really like to know why people don't feel that we can't do this... It is no different to someone being in game..? I find no reason to give Super admins access to telnet because they're not trained for it and also that would cause a security risk and a higher rating of abuse via telnet by super admins. What's wrong with Super admins just moderating in-game? It's better that way then giving out a tool that could be used in a wrong manner. Have you conducted any tests before making this suggestion? You make the assumption that there is training needed... It's exactly the same as being in game, you're just looking at the server logs instead of the command spy... There is nothing wrong with admins moderating in game, I'm suggesting that we give them more flexibility to administer when they maybe don't want to play in game. At the moment people do this but they then still take up a slot even when they're just using something like mine chat... In reality that's no different to what this suggests. Unfortunately I've personally not conducted any tests as to do so would require me having far more access to the server than I (or any other OP) has... I'm suggesting this for consideration and then we can work out the how we do it part. Everyone is assuming there is something wrong with how we currently do things, and that's not the case, this is about improving what we have, giving more flexibility and offering better and more effective ways for us to support the admin team. As someone who literally wrote the guide on how to use Telnet, I can assure you it's trivial and if you can administer in game, you can administer through telnet. Equally you don't have to use telnet, I'm sure there are telnet admins / senior admins that have never logged in to telnet, I personally rarely used it unless I was in game and needed to execute a command that only worked from the console, but it was also handy if someone reported there was disturbances going on in game, and I didn't want to wait for the game to launch just to watch and ban one player... I would really like to know what actual drawbacks this has, if we can't trust admins to administer, remove them as they can do just as much damage already in game, otherwise I have yet to see a valid reason on either thread discussing this that we wouldn't want to do it.
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97
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Post by 97 on Jul 10, 2020 15:51:51 GMT
SAs were designed to be the starter admin (not inferior). With the basic necessities for administration. Personally I don't think they need an entire console.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:53:02 GMT
SAs were designed to be the starter admin (not inferior). With the basic necessities for administration. Personally I don't think they need an entire console. I think that's a false assumption. They were originally designed to administer the server and that was it, there historically was only Super and Senior admins, and Senior admins had very little additional access. What actual drawbacks is there of offering all our admins the same basic tools to do their jobs with?
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jul 10, 2020 15:53:27 GMT
Have you conducted any tests before making this suggestion? I've actually tested it before, due to a bug if you're on telnet and you get set to super, it doesn't disconnect you. Permissions are all sound, so it won't be difficult to do this. Wild is suggesting we allow Supers to use telnet, but only with the ability to use commands that they would already have access to (e.g they can GTFO someone from telnet, but not /saconfig add). They would not gain any new permissions, besides the ability to use their existing permissions from telnet. It would in essence be very similar to using Minechat to administrate remotely from a text-based GUI.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Jul 10, 2020 15:56:01 GMT
SAs were designed to be the starter admin (not inferior). With the basic necessities for administration. Personally I don't think they need an entire console. The suggestion could be worded better, but this is a suggestion to give telnet access to super admins, but ONLY with permissions they already have (a super could /gtfo someone from telnet, but not /saconfig add). Very similar to MineChat, which is already used by many supers. They would not get access to additional permissions.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 10, 2020 15:58:36 GMT
I've highlighted the bits of relevance so hopefully the suggestion is now more clear...
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Jul 10, 2020 16:53:37 GMT
Strictly speaking this is just my opinion, but if you would not support blocking MineChat for Supers, you should not be objecting to this suggestion.
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