Darth
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Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on Jul 7, 2020 20:56:53 GMT
I don't agree with everything Wild said, but I really don't like the idea of a (previously) permbanned and indefinitely suspended admin being in such a place of power on an official TF branch. Ivan was suspended for corruption, and should not be staff on any official part of TF.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 20:59:03 GMT
In the future I am looking to integrate more things together. However, a free op server and an addon SMP server are two very different concepts and each have their own set of concepts, making it impossible to merge rules. I've been thinking of possibly our own minigame server with unique games, but that's for another thread. That server would have its own concepts and principals as well. I'm certainly not saying that they are not different, I think my point is they're being run in very different ways that in my mind contradict... There are ways of doing this sensibly, but it feels like it's a few people going off on a jolly and enjoying the novelty of playing owner when it's in reality currently no different to me setting up a random server and giving you an owner title on it... Fionn shouldn't be calling himself the owner in the first place. What his position on the server is the Manager. He doesn't own it, he simply manages it. I can take it back whenever I want. I'm going to take weekly backups of the server so in the event he tries to run with it I'll have the server files.
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AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 7, 2020 21:12:53 GMT
I'm certainly not saying that they are not different, I think my point is they're being run in very different ways that in my mind contradict... There are ways of doing this sensibly, but it feels like it's a few people going off on a jolly and enjoying the novelty of playing owner when it's in reality currently no different to me setting up a random server and giving you an owner title on it... Fionn shouldn't be calling himself the owner in the first place. What his position on the server is the Manager. He doesn't own it, he simply manages it. I can take it back whenever I want. I'm going to take weekly backups of the server so in the event he tries to run with it I'll have the server files. Although this isn't the main issue, what about the stuff we gave to fionn in return for stuff from creative mode (it was his shop)
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AshazTGA
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 7, 2020 21:14:51 GMT
Regarding the staffing comment, I strongly disagree. We don't need nearly as many staff on the SMP as we do on FreeOP. One of the TF staff has already been found to be hacking which further proves my point. As for the 'values' comment, we follow TF's conduct policy as well as a specific one for SMP which makes sense considering the servers work differently. IA now has jurisdiction over SMP so as far as I see, there isn't really a problem here. I haven't seen anywhere that the conduct policy has went into effect, because there's numerous things in the conduct policy which clash with SMP rules such as hacking, macros, etc. There is also no set amount of time that you're banned, it's just randomly set by the mood of the admin.
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 7, 2020 21:17:18 GMT
Regarding the staffing comment, I strongly disagree. We don't need nearly as many staff on the SMP as we do on FreeOP. One of the TF staff has already been found to be hacking which further proves my point. As for the 'values' comment, we follow TF's conduct policy as well as a specific one for SMP which makes sense considering the servers work differently. IA now has jurisdiction over SMP so as far as I see, there isn't really a problem here. I haven't seen anywhere that the conduct policy has went into effect, because there's numerous things in the conduct policy which clash with SMP rules such as hacking, macros, etc. There is also no set amount of time that you're banned, it's just randomly set by the mood of the admin. The conduct policy as it stands is lacking and I'm in the process of re-writing it. Please note the end of the policy "With valid reasoning, staff are able to punish you as they seem fit. If you were banned by an administrator but you do not feel you broke any immediate rules, contact administrators or fionn#1120."
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 21:18:17 GMT
I'm certainly not saying that they are not different, I think my point is they're being run in very different ways that in my mind contradict... There are ways of doing this sensibly, but it feels like it's a few people going off on a jolly and enjoying the novelty of playing owner when it's in reality currently no different to me setting up a random server and giving you an owner title on it... Fionn shouldn't be calling himself the owner in the first place. What his position on the server is the Manager. He doesn't own it, he simply manages it. I can take it back whenever I want. I'm going to take weekly backups of the server so in the event he tries to run with it I'll have the server files. That's cool, I think my more general point is right now SMP feels pretty separate and being managed in a very different way to the freedom server and I personally feel we should be doing what we can to run them in as similar way we can. Take a silly example, they're not even using the same ban appeal template... Just feels like the servers are too separate to call them anything more than associated at this point in time, that's just my 2 cent.
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AshazTGA
Veteran Member
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 7, 2020 21:22:28 GMT
I haven't seen anywhere that the conduct policy has went into effect, because there's numerous things in the conduct policy which clash with SMP rules such as hacking, macros, etc. There is also no set amount of time that you're banned, it's just randomly set by the mood of the admin. The conduct policy as it stands is lacking and I'm in the process of re-writing it. Please note the end of the policy "With valid reasoning, staff are able to punish you as they seem fit. If you were banned by an administrator but you do not feel you broke any immediate rules, contact administrators or fionn#1120." One thing I don't understand is why fionn is the main one singled out of the rest of the admins, as Seth said he isn't owner and really it should be IA that sort it out. Also, the conduct policy does have flaws but the current version is in effect RIGHT NOW which means there's clashes. Anyone could argue that the conduct policy allows it. The conduct policy is also for the freedomop server, not actually for the SMP itself so it just doesn't work together.
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 7, 2020 21:23:36 GMT
The conduct policy as it stands is lacking and I'm in the process of re-writing it. Please note the end of the policy "With valid reasoning, staff are able to punish you as they seem fit. If you were banned by an administrator but you do not feel you broke any immediate rules, contact administrators or fionn#1120." One thing I don't understand is why fionn is the main one singled out of the rest of the admins, as Seth said he isn't owner and really it should be IA that sort it out. Also, the conduct policy does have flaws but the current version is in effect RIGHT NOW which means there's clashes. Anyone could argue that the conduct policy allows it. The conduct policy is also for the freedomop server, not actually for the SMP itself so it just doesn't work together. That's why im rewriting the SMP one so it's all inclusive
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AshazTGA
Veteran Member
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Post by AshazTGA on Jul 7, 2020 21:30:34 GMT
One thing I don't understand is why fionn is the main one singled out of the rest of the admins, as Seth said he isn't owner and really it should be IA that sort it out. Also, the conduct policy does have flaws but the current version is in effect RIGHT NOW which means there's clashes. Anyone could argue that the conduct policy allows it. The conduct policy is also for the freedomop server, not actually for the SMP itself so it just doesn't work together. That's why im rewriting the SMP one so it's all inclusive Yes, but any rules on the current SMP one are the only ones in effect. You also said the TF conduct policy is in effect so I'm confused, do you mean the TF conduct policy and SMP policy is in place?
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elmon
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Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Jul 7, 2020 21:37:05 GMT
That's why im rewriting the SMP one so it's all inclusive Yes, but any rules on the current SMP one are the only ones in effect. You also said the TF conduct policy is in effect so I'm confused, do you mean the TF conduct policy and SMP policy is in place? If you read the SMP conduct policy it clearly states "other applicable offenses listed in section x of the TF conduct policy".
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Post by zekurt on Jul 8, 2020 0:16:04 GMT
As someone who actually plays on the server, and hasn't broken any rules, it's being ran fine. I've had nothing but good things to say about the way Fionn & Ivan have operated it. This is a non issue, and I think most people who actually play (fairly) on the server would agree.
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