Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 7:59:53 GMT
So this comes off the response I just tried to write on totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67521/abuse-power-lack-transparency-smp before the thread was locked. It's become apparent since SMP was setup that it's being managed pretty much entirely independently from the Freedom server, and often in conflict of TF's values... I've lost my full comment where the thread was locked but it was basically a matter of this. If we're going to continue calling SMP an official server, we should be aligning much more with the freedom server, admins should be the same on both servers, policies should be the same (Or at least the basics should be) and if we're going to have something like IA we should be pushing them to work on that as well. If SMP Doesn't want to align with the freedom server, it frankly should be moved to an associated server. The SMP server seems to just cause drama. I can see no reason we wouldn't want to have 'Official' servers aligned with how the main server works... It's been the argument for why Seth wanted to ensure he was able to manage all of TF's resources when he took over, and I'm concerned as to why we feel SMP is an exception when there is no sensible reason for it to be such.
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 7, 2020 8:00:59 GMT
What policies do you suggest we migrate over onto SMP?
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 8:06:05 GMT
What policies do you suggest we migrate over onto SMP? That's sort of the point... The policies we already have in place for the freedom server should be what we're primarily using, if there are 'Additional' Rules then I could get that, but the fact you've had to ask that question is sort of my issue with how SMP has been setup...
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jul 7, 2020 8:06:26 GMT
Regarding the staffing comment, I strongly disagree. We don't need nearly as many staff on the SMP as we do on FreeOP. One of the TF staff has already been found to be hacking which further proves my point.
As for the 'values' comment, we follow TF's conduct policy as well as a specific one for SMP which makes sense considering the servers work differently. IA now has jurisdiction over SMP so as far as I see, there isn't really a problem here.
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JagWire
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Post by JagWire on Jul 7, 2020 8:12:47 GMT
What policies do you suggest we migrate over onto SMP? For starters, what logic lets a suspended admin from Totalfreedom be admin on SMP? You can't make the argument that they are two separate servers, it shares the same forum and domain. If you're suspending an admin from one server, I think it should be consistent. Considering they don't even have a forum account here says it all. Misuse of administrator commands, from what I saw in the previous thread, this is my biggest concern at the moment. I know you're rectifying this issue, but I think that it needs adding. So in future, if a staff member is found to be using their power for advantages, they should have it removed.
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jul 7, 2020 8:28:28 GMT
What policies do you suggest we migrate over onto SMP? For starters, what logic lets a suspended admin from Totalfreedom be admin on SMP. You can't make the argument that they are two separate servers, it shares the same forum and domain. If you're suspending an admin from one server, I think it should be consistent. Considering they don't even have a forum account here says it all. Misuse of administrator commands, from what I saw in the previous thread, this is my biggest concern at the moment. I know you're rectifying this issue at the moment, but I think that it needs adding. So in future, if a staff member is found to be using their power for advantages, they should have it removed. For the sake of transparency which was apparently an issue before, I'm going to let you guys know the significant permissions that people have. I won't comment on "suspended admin" situation. Users with panel access: - Telesphoreo (Host/Developer) - Fionn (Owner) - Seth (Owner) - Ivan (Admin/Founder) - Speed (Developer) - Super (Developer) - Square (Developer) Players with OP access: - Seth - Fionn - Ivan The developers have panel access so they can update plugins and upload them onto the server. Ivan has panel because he has been the designated 'bug fixer' and other types of permission/server behavior issues such as plugin config etc. The developers with panel are not allowed to OP themselves in game and we have the logs to ensure they don't. Non-Opped players do not have access to /give or /gmc (including Admins). This eliminates the possibility for any kind of 'Advantages' or 'Misuse of administrator commands', since essentially, most staff members only have access to moderation commands. Any admin found misusing their powers will be removed.
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JagWire
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Post by JagWire on Jul 7, 2020 8:33:35 GMT
For starters, what logic lets a suspended admin from Totalfreedom be admin on SMP. You can't make the argument that they are two separate servers, it shares the same forum and domain. If you're suspending an admin from one server, I think it should be consistent. Considering they don't even have a forum account here says it all. Misuse of administrator commands, from what I saw in the previous thread, this is my biggest concern at the moment. I know you're rectifying this issue at the moment, but I think that it needs adding. So in future, if a staff member is found to be using their power for advantages, they should have it removed. For the sake of transparency which was apparently an issue before, I'm going to let you guys know the significant permissions that people have. I won't comment on "suspended admin" situation. Users with panel access: - Telesphoreo (Host/Developer) - Fionn (Owner) - Seth (Owner) - Ivan (Admin/Founder) - Speed (Developer) - Super (Developer) - Square (Developer) Players with OP access: - Seth - Fionn - Ivan The developers have panel access so they can update plugins and upload them onto the server. Ivan has panel because he has been the designated 'bug fixer' and other types of permission/server behavior issues such as plugin config etc. The developers with panel are not allowed to OP themselves in game and we have the logs to ensure they don't. Non-Opped players do not have access to /give or /gmc (including Admins). This eliminates the possibility for any kind of 'Advantages' or 'Misuse of administrator commands', since essentially, most staff members only have access to moderation commands. Any admin found misusing their powers will be removed. Thank you for clearing this up, this makes a bit more sense now.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 8:36:56 GMT
Regarding the staffing comment, I strongly disagree. We don't need nearly as many staff on the SMP as we do on FreeOP. One of the TF staff has already been found to be hacking which further proves my point. Then it should be an associated server... Simple as that. That's my 2 cent on the matter, you can't pick and choose who you like because it fits with how you want to run a server, you either should be running it like TF, or changing the freedom server. In that example why wasn't the admin then sanctioned on the Freedom server? It's silly that we have an official server that is no more linked to the server than any other associated server. For the sake of transparency which was apparently an issue before, I'm going to let you guys know the significant permissions that people have. I won't comment on "suspended admin" situation. Users with panel access: - Telesphoreo (Host/Developer) - Fionn (Owner) - Seth (Owner) - Ivan (Admin/Founder) - Speed (Developer) - Super (Developer) - Square (Developer) Players with OP access: - Seth - Fionn - Ivan The developers have panel access so they can update plugins and upload them onto the server. Ivan has panel because he has been the designated 'bug fixer' and other types of permission/server behavior issues such as plugin config etc. The developers with panel are not allowed to OP themselves in game and we have the logs to ensure they don't. Non-Opped players do not have access to /give or /gmc (including Admins). This eliminates the possibility for any kind of 'Advantages' or 'Misuse of administrator commands', since essentially, most staff members only have access to moderation commands. Any admin found misusing their powers will be removed. Which other than Seth, seems to in no way mirror the Freedom server at all... Which again is part of my point here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 8:54:37 GMT
In the future I am looking to integrate more things together. However, a free op server and an addon SMP server are two very different concepts and each have their own set of concepts, making it impossible to merge rules. I've been thinking of possibly our own minigame server with unique games, but that's for another thread. That server would have its own concepts and principals as well.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 11:14:09 GMT
In the future I am looking to integrate more things together. However, a free op server and an addon SMP server are two very different concepts and each have their own set of concepts, making it impossible to merge rules. I've been thinking of possibly our own minigame server with unique games, but that's for another thread. That server would have its own concepts and principals as well. I'm certainly not saying that they are not different, I think my point is they're being run in very different ways that in my mind contradict... There are ways of doing this sensibly, but it feels like it's a few people going off on a jolly and enjoying the novelty of playing owner when it's in reality currently no different to me setting up a random server and giving you an owner title on it...
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square
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Post by square on Jul 7, 2020 12:08:45 GMT
i'm confused, people don't want massive amounts of admins on the TF servers but you want to add all freeop admins? i see no issue with the smp having a slightly different conduct policy much like the discord and that isn't going to change the fact that it's an official server.
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jul 7, 2020 12:20:52 GMT
i'm confused, people don't want massive amounts of admins on the TF servers but you want to add all freeop admins? i see no issue with the smp having a slightly different conduct policy much like the discord and that isn't going to change the fact that it's an official server. I think you're confusing two separate issues. My primary issue here is that SMP is currently seeming to be about as separate as it possibly could be to the freedom server, the fact that some TF admins happen to own it is about the extent of the association. I also have no issue with small changes as would be normal, but right now from what I've seen, there is close to nothing that is aligned with the freedom server's ways of working. The whole point of associated servers was for exactly this server, where it's owned by TF admins and the community are interested in it, I am really struggling to see the current justification for it being 'Official' when it's so separate...
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 7, 2020 12:23:51 GMT
What happened to adding it to bungee? I remember that was a reason for keeping onlinemode..
Plus if we merged the conduct policy then that would mean as per section 4 everyone is entitled to OP
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fionn
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Post by fionn on Jul 7, 2020 12:50:27 GMT
What happened to adding it to bungee? I remember that was a reason for keeping onlinemode.. Plus if we merged the conduct policy then that would mean as per section 4 everyone is entitled to OP Once Free-OP updates to 1.16 we'll be bungeeing up. And no, that's completely invalid because we do not follow the TF Conduct Policy because that was designed to cater to Free-OP and not SMP. It would ruin the entire premise of SMP if everybody received OP.
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Luke
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Post by Luke on Jul 7, 2020 13:10:54 GMT
What happened to adding it to bungee? I remember that was a reason for keeping onlinemode.. Plus if we merged the conduct policy then that would mean as per section 4 everyone is entitled to OP And no, that's completely invalid because we do not follow the TF Conduct Policy because that was designed to cater to Free-OP and not SMP. It would ruin the entire premise of SMP if everybody received OP. no i know im saying thats a reason not to merge the policies which is what this thread initially suggested
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