elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 13:27:43 GMT
Currently, permban requests are filled with admins just replying with 'Vouch', which adds nothing to the post and is effectively power-posting. examples: - totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67364/inotch-ip-grabbing- totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67162/quicklyy-umc-man- totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67161/panda-kingI am guilty of this myself, but I think we should implement a policy that disallows this. My proposition would be the following: The only people permitted to respond to a permban request thread are people tagged as witnesses, and people with something of value to add that could affect the outcome of the permban request (for or against).With the introduction of the 'Permban Manager' title, there is no real reason to include voting on these requests. Steven, or whoever has the title in the future, is more than capable of reading through the request, looking at the evidence and the witness confirmations, and deciding whether or not they would be deserving of a perm ban. |
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xfilez
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Post by xfilez on Jun 28, 2020 13:30:04 GMT
Vouch!
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on Jun 28, 2020 13:30:58 GMT
This for me goes back to the argument of why 'Vouch' 'Object' and 'Neutral' are totally useless in the process in general.
I think if you've got something meaningful to add, you should always be allowed to do so, but I think it should be down to whoever the EAO / Permban Manager / Whatever other role to then read through those and make a judgement from that based on the additional information provided.
Would be keen for this to go through, and for the same to be rolled out to all of our application process.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 28, 2020 14:13:11 GMT
Definitely not, i know off the top of my head 3+ invalid permban requests in the past couple of months that i commented on. If you really care about "powerposting" dont let comments raise your post count or be required to give a reasoning.
Limiting who can vote is ALWAYS a bad thing.
A little off topic but I think if you were to give the Permban manager the power to decide on the punishment, then it should be an executive position
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 14:14:43 GMT
Definitely not, i know off the top of my head 3+ invalid permban requests in the past couple of months that i commented on. If you really care about "powerposting" dont let comments raise your post count or be required to give a reasoning. Limiting who can vote is ALWAYS a bad thing. That's why I said if you have a valid reason to object you can? Provided you give your reasoning |
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 28, 2020 14:16:55 GMT
Definitely not, i know off the top of my head 3+ invalid permban requests in the past couple of months that i commented on. If you really care about "powerposting" dont let comments raise your post count or be required to give a reasoning. Limiting who can vote is ALWAYS a bad thing. That's why I said if you have a valid reason to object you can? Provided you give your reasoning So you can have a valid opinion but only object if that's the case? how does that make any sense. I dont think restricting anyones opinion is a good idda |
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 28, 2020 14:18:10 GMT
What defines being "involved" - I see there's an issue with "incalid" perm bans, but thats more an issue with Admins rather than the system IMO
Object
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 14:26:52 GMT
So you can have a valid opinion but only object if that's the case? how does that make any sense. I dont think restricting anyones opinion is a good idda You're putting words in my mouth, I said you can vouch/object if you have a reason to or if you have meaningful information. I should probably make that more clear in my OP. I think a post like this should still be allowed: totalfreedom.boards.net/post/766094but pretty much this whole thread is pointless: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67364/inotch-ip-grabbingWhat defines being "involved" - I see there's an issue with "incalid" perm bans, but thats more an issue with Admins rather than the system IMO I get the feeling you just read the title and didn't read what I said in the suggestion itself. I admit the title is a little misleading that is my fault. I really mean people that aren't involved (as in witnesses) and don't have anything of value to add. |
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 28, 2020 14:29:46 GMT
So you can have a valid opinion but only object if that's the case? how does that make any sense. I dont think restricting anyones opinion is a good idda You're putting words in my mouth, I said you can vouch/object if you have a reason to or if you have meaningful information. I should probably make that more clear in my OP. I think a post like this should still be allowed: totalfreedom.boards.net/post/766094but pretty much this whole thread is pointless: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67364/inotch-ip-grabbingWhat defines being "involved" - I see there's an issue with "incalid" perm bans, but thats more an issue with Admins rather than the system IMO I get the feeling you just read the title and didn't read what I said in the suggestion itself. I admit the title is a little misleading that is my fault. I really mean people that aren't involved (as in witnesses) and don't have anything of value to add. Thats what I asked - who gets to decide this? |
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 14:35:05 GMT
You're putting words in my mouth, I said you can vouch/object if you have a reason to or if you have meaningful information. I should probably make that more clear in my OP. I think a post like this should still be allowed: totalfreedom.boards.net/post/766094but pretty much this whole thread is pointless: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/67364/inotch-ip-grabbingI get the feeling you just read the title and didn't read what I said in the suggestion itself. I admit the title is a little misleading that is my fault. I really mean people that aren't involved (as in witnesses) and don't have anything of value to add. Thats what I asked - who gets to decide this? A witness is defined by the person making the permban request, I think they should be able to reply with at least confirming the event. I also think it's pretty clear when someone has something of value to add. If I say: Vouch, player was griefing again today - that adds value Object, the evidence provided does not prove x - that adds value Vouch - no value Vouch, annyoing - no value |
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 14:39:31 GMT
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Jun 28, 2020 14:41:53 GMT
Then the solution, in my opinion, is to give further reasoning why you chose vouch/object, not to completely remove your option to vote |
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Jun 28, 2020 14:44:39 GMT
Then the solution, in my opinion, is to give further reasoning why you chose vouch/object, not to completely remove your option to vote Who defines a valid reasoning? |
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elmon
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Post by elmon on Jun 28, 2020 14:47:24 GMT
Then the solution, in my opinion, is to give further reasoning why you chose vouch/object, not to completely remove your option to vote If you have further reasoning that falls under 'adds value' which is literally what this suggestion is saying |
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grntbg
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Post by grntbg on Jun 28, 2020 15:56:29 GMT
Object for reasons above. I don't see there being an exact point on what constitutes a "valid" reason. This server also doesn't need more titles with the bloated hierarchy that's already in place.
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