Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 21:41:44 GMT
Before you continue, I want you to know before January I never really payed attention to the forum so I don't know much about this. One thing I want to ask though is why was Security Officer removed? This role was really good, iirc correctly it was StevenNL2000 who had the role in the past. This role was important as there was someone to report certain things such as potential rogue activity or severe crashing to. Steve always verifies unknown admin's identities. It would be really useful if this was brought back. EDIT: Another point (ty wilee) is that Steve also manages the permbans, which a new security officer can do. |
|
|
|
Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 16, 2020 21:43:53 GMT
It would be nice to have the executive position as long as it's utilized properly, I've thought that with bringing it back the title of "Perm Ban Manager" can just be moved into it as it would be more appropriate for an executive role to have server access.
|
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 21:58:29 GMT
Not really sure what the role ever gave us? Like in terms of actual value and all that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Telesphoreo on May 16, 2020 21:58:35 GMT
I vouch. Maybe the role could be expanded to maintaining security on the panel/VPS?
|
|
Video
Forum Admin 
An op's rights activist
Posts: 5,585
| Likes: 5,893
IGN: VideoGameSmash12, videogamesm12
Old IGN: https://namemc.com/profile/VideoGameSmash12.2, https://namemc.com/profile/videogamesm12.1
Discord: Video#9801
Birthdate (MM/DD): 07/16
Timezone: UTC-07:00
Member is Staff. Need immediate assistance? Send a PM
|
Post by Video on May 16, 2020 21:59:31 GMT
Vouch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 22:00:14 GMT
Not really sure what the role ever gave us? Like in terms of actual value and all that? The role was given to a trusted member of the server. This member would deal with potential rogues, serial crashers etc (basically severe trollers that make a really big negative impact). This member would be so reliable you could trust them all the time. |
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 22:38:01 GMT
Not really sure what the role ever gave us? Like in terms of actual value and all that? The role was given to a trusted member of the server. This member would deal with potential rogues, serial crashers etc (basically severe trollers that make a really big negative impact). This member would be so reliable you could trust them all the time. But what do they actually do? I don't see how that's different from what Admins should be doing anyway... The argument around verification that was used, isn't really that reliable, it relies on people knowing them, it's why we generally find someone who can vouch for them because they know them IRL / separately rather than anything else, especially if it's returning from long inactivity... I just don't see in the current format what such a role would do to add value to the server? |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on May 16, 2020 22:43:10 GMT
The role was given to a trusted member of the server. This member would deal with potential rogues, serial crashers etc (basically severe trollers that make a really big negative impact). This member would be so reliable you could trust them all the time. But what do they actually do? I don't see how that's different from what Admins should be doing anyway... The argument around verification that was used, isn't really that reliable, it relies on people knowing them, it's why we generally find someone who can vouch for them because they know them IRL / separately rather than anything else, especially if it's returning from long inactivity... I just don't see in the current format what such a role would do to add value to the server? A security officer is an Executive position that ensures the security of the server (kind of self explanatory), part of what this entails is ensuring that returning admins are who they say are. What you said is true, but who is to verify their proof? The security officer. Another thing is dealing with perm ban requests, Steven does this anyway but we could merge "Perm Ban Manager" which seems an overly specific title into one executive role that is more general and manages other factors as well. |
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 22:46:28 GMT
But what do they actually do? I don't see how that's different from what Admins should be doing anyway... The argument around verification that was used, isn't really that reliable, it relies on people knowing them, it's why we generally find someone who can vouch for them because they know them IRL / separately rather than anything else, especially if it's returning from long inactivity... I just don't see in the current format what such a role would do to add value to the server? A security officer is an Executive position that ensures the security of the server (kind of self explanatory), part of what this entails is ensuring that returning admins are who they say are. What you said is true, but who is to verify their proof? The security officer. Another thing is dealing with perm ban requests, Steven does this anyway but we could merge "Perm Ban Manager" which seems an overly specific title into one executive role that is more general and manages other factors as well. To be honest I just see it as a role for a roles sake... I know what it previously has been used for, but I don't think we've ever actually had a benefit from the role... How could you verify if I said someone I know from here and who I know IRL is actually re-joining. I could just create a fake account / similar, there would be no way a security executive could know that... Permbans might well be a valid use case, historically the owner has done that when we've had a security manager, so if that is a primary purpose for the role I can see a more useful purpose for the role, but to be honest it feels like we should be able to manage that through the massive amount of high-ranking staff we already have without just creating (or re-creating) titles that don't do a lot in the grand scheme of things? |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on May 16, 2020 22:49:21 GMT
How could you verify if I said someone I know from here and who I know IRL is actually re-joining. I could just create a fake account / similar, there would be no way a security executive could know that... All this does is prove the need for a security officer even more, if there is no one to verify these kind of claims, it opens up the possibility for bullshit claims like that to go under the radar more easily, if someone is in charge or managing that, they would be more careful to verify the claims. |
|
square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
| Likes: 1,291
|
Post by square on May 16, 2020 22:49:57 GMT
Not really sure what the role ever gave us? Like in terms of actual value and all that? The role was given to a trusted member of the server. This member would deal with potential rogues, serial crashers etc (basically severe trollers that make a really big negative impact). This member would be so reliable you could trust them all the time. isn't the former just the role of the IA? |
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 22:52:38 GMT
How could you verify if I said someone I know from here and who I know IRL is actually re-joining. I could just create a fake account / similar, there would be no way a security executive could know that... All this does is prove the need for a security officer even more, if there is no one to verify these kind of claims, it opens up the possibility for bullshit claims like that to go under the radar more easily, if someone is in charge or managing that, they would be more careful to verify the claims. I think you miss my point... It would be absolutely impossible to prove that claim regardless of who is in charge... I'm saying the role serves a limited to no productive purpose in the server, and just feels like an extra role for the sake of it... I don't see why stuff like Permbans can't either be managed by Seth, or delegated to an Exec or senior (Like they have been already) without the need for someone getting a title for the privilege... |
|
elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
Posts: 1,476
| Likes: 1,842
|
Post by elmon on May 16, 2020 22:56:18 GMT
All this does is prove the need for a security officer even more, if there is no one to verify these kind of claims, it opens up the possibility for bullshit claims like that to go under the radar more easily, if someone is in charge or managing that, they would be more careful to verify the claims. I think you miss my point... It would be absolutely impossible to prove that claim regardless of who is in charge... I'm saying the role serves a limited to no productive purpose in the server, and just feels like an extra role for the sake of it... I don't see why stuff like Permbans can't either be managed by Seth, or delegated to an Exec or senior (Like they have been already) without the need for someone getting a title for the privilege... It's just a more general role than "Perm ban manager" that gets more control over more areas of the security of the server. "Note: Reinstatements will not be approved until the executive admin officer can positively verify that the person applying for reinstatement is the same as the past admin - the burden of proof is on the person requesting reinstatement." This responsibility can be passed to the Security Officer, its a task that has to be done anyway so the issue you bring up doesn't discredit the need for a security officer, as the task needs to be done and the fact that people can bypass the verification process is not a reason against having a security officer, more of a reason for it. |
|
Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
| Likes: 9,680
|
Post by Wild1145 on May 16, 2020 23:04:03 GMT
I think you miss my point... It would be absolutely impossible to prove that claim regardless of who is in charge... I'm saying the role serves a limited to no productive purpose in the server, and just feels like an extra role for the sake of it... I don't see why stuff like Permbans can't either be managed by Seth, or delegated to an Exec or senior (Like they have been already) without the need for someone getting a title for the privilege... It's just a more general role than "Perm ban manager" that gets more control over more areas of the security of the server. "Note: Reinstatements will not be approved until the executive admin officer can positively verify that the person applying for reinstatement is the same as the past admin - the burden of proof is on the person requesting reinstatement." This responsibility can be passed to the Security Officer, its a task that has to be done anyway so the issue you bring up doesn't discredit the need for a security officer, as the task needs to be done and the fact that people can bypass the verification process is not a reason against having a security officer, more of a reason for it. I just don't really see any value in it... It really does feel like creating a new title for the sake of it. That's cool though, like we do it enough anyway but I just object to re-instating a role that we haven't really missed... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 23:31:45 GMT
This role was important as there was someone to report certain things such as potential rogue activity or severe crashing to
Steve always verifies unknown admin's identities.
That's not even a thing for security officer. Last time I checked it was because mark wanted someone else to help him with security, something I don't need, so I don't need it.
Another point (ty wilee) is that Steve also manages the permbans, which a new security officer can do.
He asked to do it, so I let him do it. We don't need an entire rank to do such a simple task.
|
|
