zeseryu
Veteran Member
Admin Officer
ops rights activist
Posts: 1,181
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Post by zeseryu on May 9, 2020 14:46:02 GMT
here's the difference: being on discord takes literally 0 effort and can be run in the background. for example, i could be playing new horizons while i'm watching videos and if anybody wanted me they could just ping me on discord or i could be just chatting on discord. meanwhile, going on minecraft takes active efforts in order to not be kicked for afking and to actually administrate and play the game. we're not forced to play minecraft and discord is not a game. if you're talking about people in #server-chat, then that's because they're just chatting and don't want to play the game. if you're not bothered enough to make some effort and adminstrate, what's the point in being an admin? we do not expect our admins to be on the server every minute they have. they have lives, and im sure other games they want to enjoy. i see absolutely no problem in keeping an eye on the server from discord
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
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Post by Wild1145 on May 9, 2020 14:54:38 GMT
if you're not bothered enough to make some effort and adminstrate, what's the point in being an admin? we do not expect our admins to be on the server every minute they have. they have lives, and im sure other games they want to enjoy. i see absolutely no problem in keeping an eye on the server from discord I think the point that was being made was if you can't be bothered to login game to administrate, you probably shouldn't be an admin... Personal circumstances is one thing, but the point that's been made here that seems I think to be being missed, is that this is not about the recent circumstances, but more generally that activity checks aren't taking place, and to be realistic, if someone was having personal circumstances that prevented them spending time, you'd hope they would message someone to let them know. Realistically from the current data, we could be in this position for the next 6-12 months, so sooner or later we need to get back to being as 'normal' as we can. I don't know when that should be, and I agree that it's no bad thing to pause the activity checks for the time being, but a line really needs to be drawn, and if there are admins who are active on Discord / The Forums and not in game, then the question should be asked as to why that is.
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
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Post by square on May 9, 2020 14:57:04 GMT
here's the difference: being on discord takes literally 0 effort and can be run in the background. for example, i could be playing new horizons while i'm watching videos and if anybody wanted me they could just ping me on discord or i could be just chatting on discord. meanwhile, going on minecraft takes active efforts in order to not be kicked for afking and to actually administrate and play the game. we're not forced to play minecraft and discord is not a game. if you're talking about people in #server-chat, then that's because they're just chatting and don't want to play the game. if you're not bothered enough to make some effort and adminstrate, what's the point in being an admin? again, you're comparing admins being on discord all the time to administrating. you're telling me that admins should be able to administrate as often as they could be on discord, which is just not true. people could be able to be on discord or be chatting to friends and still not be able to be on the server. most admins anyways are 'bothered enough' to administrate it's just they can't allocate dozens of hours into the same game every day. the ones usually inactive in the forums and server are not active on the discord.
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Feueristic
Full Member
C'est la vie
Posts: 133
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Post by Feueristic on May 9, 2020 15:02:44 GMT
The way I see it is if you're an admin that is always on Discord, why are you never in-game? Surely if your PC can go onto Discord and load thousands of messages, it can go on Minecraft and run too? You're saying as if someone is merely online on Discord they have to be free every time. You can literally have Discord on and be dealing with a university final year project. If you see someone actively participating in discord server chat and have a live response yet does not EVER come online in-game, maybe DM them to figure out what was happening. Treat players and admins like people. People won't and shouldn't dedicate their life to a block game server. Start enforcing the activity policy that we used about a year ago which included monthly admin removals based on both forum and server activity, using the activity log system. If I'm not mistaken, however, the post you've referenced never spoke about "Monthly inactivity removals". Activity checks will be conducted randomly by me. I will pull the activity log from the server in order to conduct them. This is to remove the people that go months(plural) without ever administrating on the server. The policy also was never to be managed by EAO/AEAOs (seen in 1st quote, "conducted by me(Seth)"). I'm not too smart about TF History but from what I've gathered, things make sense for me. That said, once the Covid thing is over, I supposed this would be adequate to monitor admin activity.
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Luke
Veteran Member
Go home to your family, Neo
Posts: 1,124
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Post by Luke on May 9, 2020 15:07:30 GMT
I'd just like to note that COVID-19 won't just go away, chances are it'll be around for years. When do we plan on stopping the freeze? When countries come off lockdown?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 15:27:25 GMT
if you're not bothered enough to make some effort and adminstrate, what's the point in being an admin? again, you're comparing admins being on discord all the time to administrating. you're telling me that admins should be able to administrate as often as they could be on discord, which is just not true. people could be able to be on discord or be chatting to friends and still not be able to be on the server. most admins anyways are 'bothered enough' to administrate it's just they can't allocate dozens of hours into the same game every day. the ones usually inactive in the forums and server are not active on the discord. You've misunderstood me. You don't need to be 100% active but some of the admins that are on the discord haven't been in game for weeks or months
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Kash
Veteran Member
Yellow.
Posts: 1,781
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Post by Kash on May 9, 2020 15:33:08 GMT
I am sure that people or loved ones who are sick will not be thinking about logging on a Minecraft server to ban griefers.
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
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Post by square on May 9, 2020 15:34:12 GMT
again, you're comparing admins being on discord all the time to administrating. you're telling me that admins should be able to administrate as often as they could be on discord, which is just not true. people could be able to be on discord or be chatting to friends and still not be able to be on the server. most admins anyways are 'bothered enough' to administrate it's just they can't allocate dozens of hours into the same game every day. the ones usually inactive in the forums and server are not active on the discord. You've misunderstood me. You don't need to be 100% active but some of the admins that are on the discord haven't been in game for weeks or months again, people who are active on the discord are almost always active on the server (few less due to inactivity freeze), the ones usually inactive on the discord are also inactive on the server. the original post you made said that admins on the discord server could also go on minecraft when it's not as simple as "if you're on the discord, go on the server. if you're not, you shouldn't be an admin" currently.
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Darth
Veteran Member
Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on May 9, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
Maybe start activity checks up in a couple months, but do it gradually and have less requirements that steadily work back up to normal over a few more months.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 9, 2020 19:08:06 GMT
I am sure that people or loved ones who are sick will not be thinking about logging on a Minecraft server to ban griefers. And nobody disagrees with that. The point is that COVID-19 is not going to just disappear a month from now, so what do we do? Just abolish the concept of activity for the next 1.5 years (and possibly more)? Here's what I don't get, if somebody was sick or had loved ones who were sick under any other circumstance, they would simply post an inactivity notice and reinstate later on. Is this not something that is possible during this pandemic? If somebody has to go inactive, just as always they are welcome to leave and come back at a future time when they are comfortable to do so. Like I said, for now, a freeze is fine. However, soon, just as restrictions and lockdowns are loosened around the world, we must also go back to enforcing activity and there is absolutely nothing wrong or disrespectful with admins being able to go inactive and reinstate at a later time.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 9, 2020 19:25:53 GMT
The way I see it is if you're an admin that is always on Discord, why are you never in-game? Surely if your PC can go onto Discord and load thousands of messages, it can go on Minecraft and run too? You're saying as if someone is merely online on Discord they have to be free every time. You can literally have Discord on and be dealing with a university final year project. If you see someone actively participating in discord server chat and have a live response yet does not EVER come online in-game, maybe DM them to figure out what was happening. Treat players and admins like people. People won't and shouldn't dedicate their life to a block game server. Start enforcing the activity policy that we used about a year ago which included monthly admin removals based on both forum and server activity, using the activity log system. If I'm not mistaken, however, the post you've referenced never spoke about "Monthly inactivity removals". Activity checks will be conducted randomly by me. I will pull the activity log from the server in order to conduct them. This is to remove the people that go months(plural) without ever administrating on the server. The policy also was never to be managed by EAO/AEAOs (seen in 1st quote, "conducted by me(Seth)"). I'm not too smart about TF History but from what I've gathered, things make sense for me. That said, once the Covid thing is over, I supposed this would be adequate to monitor admin activity. When Zaid was the EAO, he posted inactivity removals monthly. Seth also did this at some point, I mainly remember Zaid doing it, and then at some point it stopped and nobody was doing (and I'm talking about even before Zaid stopped being EAO). While the policy does say "randomly", whenever it did happen it was a by month thing, perhaps it should simply be edited to state that and also state that the EAO also manages those removals since that's how that worked. Anyways, I don't think completely not handling inactivity at all for half a year counts as being conducted randomly.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 9, 2020 19:27:26 GMT
You've misunderstood me. You don't need to be 100% active but some of the admins that are on the discord haven't been in game for weeks or months again, people who are active on the discord are almost always active on the server (few less due to inactivity freeze), the ones usually inactive on the discord are also inactive on the server. the original post you made said that admins on the discord server could also go on minecraft when it's not as simple as "if you're on the discord, go on the server. if you're not, you shouldn't be an admin" currently. Then why must they retain their admin status instead of them posting an inactivity notice, them not having their status while inactive, and then them reinstating afterwards?
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
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Post by square on May 9, 2020 19:37:03 GMT
again, people who are active on the discord are almost always active on the server (few less due to inactivity freeze), the ones usually inactive on the discord are also inactive on the server. the original post you made said that admins on the discord server could also go on minecraft when it's not as simple as "if you're on the discord, go on the server. if you're not, you shouldn't be an admin" currently. Then why must they retain their admin status instead of them posting an inactivity notice, them not having their status while inactive, and then them reinstating afterwards? the ones truly inactive can post an inactivity notice (which they do) however as nearly all inactive admins are both inactive on the server and on the discord, to say that people active on the discord are not in-game would be mostly false. furthermore, i do not believe playing on the server once per week is inactive however since the point is "if you're on discord you should be able to be on the server" i would disagree. at this current time, i don't see many inactive people added on the server anyways.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on May 9, 2020 19:42:07 GMT
Then why must they retain their admin status instead of them posting an inactivity notice, them not having their status while inactive, and then them reinstating afterwards? the ones inactive before the freeze were both inactive on the server and the discord where a large majority of them were seniors. at this current time, i don't see many inactive people (differing time zones) and i was not talking about the inactive admins because they are not active on the discord. The activity policy doesn't go off of your personal observations of who's inactive or not, it goes off of the objective metrics of forum activity and the server activity log. I also have little clue what discord activity has to do with this subject at all when a grand total of 0 admins have ever been removed for not participating on the discord. There's nothing we can do about people being inactive prior to the freeze because activity is relative to the present and there is currently a freeze, the idea is that we should eventually end that freeze and start actually enforcing the policy.
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square
Veteran Member
Asst. Creative Designer
Posts: 1,294
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Post by square on May 9, 2020 19:46:27 GMT
the ones inactive before the freeze were both inactive on the server and the discord where a large majority of them were seniors. at this current time, i don't see many inactive people (differing time zones) and i was not talking about the inactive admins because they are not active on the discord. The activity policy doesn't go off of your personal observations of who's inactive or not, it goes off of the objective metrics of forum activity and the server activity log. I also have little clue what discord activity has to do with this subject at all when a grand total of 0 admins have ever been removed for not participating on the discord. There's nothing we can do about people being inactive prior to the freeze because activity is relative to the present and there is currently a freeze, the idea is that we should eventually end that freeze and start actually enforcing the policy. "The activity policy doesn't go off of your personal observations of who's inactive or not, it goes off of the objective metrics of forum activity and the server activity log."logs would probably prove that the majority of added admins regularly speaking on discord are active on the server and forums. "I also have little clue what discord activity has to do with this subject at all when a grand total of 0 admins have ever been removed for not participating on the discord."other way around "the idea is that we should eventually end that freeze and start actually enforcing the policy."i would agree with this, we need a time set for the inactivity policy to come back (hence the point of the thread) however are we basing this off one large date when most country's regulations have been laid off or something else
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