burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Apr 29, 2020 23:13:27 GMT
MB world and rank is objectively useless other than giving recognition to our esteemed builders. To be honest, it would be kinda cool if we made MB world some kind of showcase world for other server owners to look at, and hire our Master Builders. That would at least give them a reason to stick around and proliferate. Would be cool to make a team we could dispatch representing Total Freedom; it would give our builders recognition for their impeccable works while also being a net positive for Total Freedom's public view. Master Builder world is kind of just a playground for you guys, but I see a lot more potential in the rank/role itself. We are planning on using the mbw to be the hub and a showcase world.
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Post by zevante on Apr 29, 2020 23:17:37 GMT
MB world and rank is objectively useless other than giving recognition to our esteemed builders. To be honest, it would be kinda cool if we made MB world some kind of showcase world for other server owners to look at, and hire our Master Builders. That would at least give them a reason to stick around and proliferate. Would be cool to make a team we could dispatch representing Total Freedom; it would give our builders recognition for their impeccable works while also being a net positive for Total Freedom's public view. Master Builder world is kind of just a playground for you guys, but I see a lot more potential in the rank/role itself. We are planning on using the mbw to be the hub and a showcase world. Officially? With proper infrastructure set up? How will you advert the world for potential clients/server owners? Or do you just mean setting it as a spawn? I'm kind of behind on info when it comes to MB. Could you elaborate for me lol
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burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Apr 29, 2020 23:26:59 GMT
We are planning on using the mbw to be the hub and a showcase world. Officially? With proper infrastructure set up? How will you advert the world for potential clients/server owners? Or do you just mean setting it as a spawn? I'm kind of behind on info when it comes to MB. Could you elaborate for me lol miwo could you explain your plan please?
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Apr 29, 2020 23:32:17 GMT
If we get rid of the mbw then mb's really do have nothing. Until recently they didn't even have the tools necessary to actually build. The mb rank on this server, I feel, doesn't get the love it deserves. Building is something that not everyone can do and yet we treat our master builders as if they were pheasants. The master builder rank doesn't feature anything, unless of course you count the mbw which is the very thing you are proposing to remove. I mean heck a mb is still considered an op which tells me that their rank is completely ignored by most and because of that I don't think it's a good to remove even more of the little they have. Exactly, so why does everyone here get all uptight when somebody wants to let the dirty nasty peasants into the adminworld, but when players were allowed access to the master builder world nobody cared about all these exploits? I only objected because I wasn’t sure it was practical, but thinking about it, I don’t see why we couldn’t use the same settings the master builder world has for adminworld. If people here are objecting because the very presence of an OP annoys them, then that’s dumb. Either way I switch to a vouch.
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burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Apr 29, 2020 23:39:26 GMT
Exactly, so why does everyone here get all uptight when somebody wants to let the dirty nasty peasants into the adminworld, but when players were allowed access to the master builder world nobody cared about all these exploits? I only objected because I wasn’t sure it was practical, but thinking about it, I don’t see why we couldn’t use the same settings the master builder world has for adminworld. If people here are objecting because the very presence of an OP annoys them, then that’s dumb. Either way I switch to a vouch. Mbw was exploited a while back. Wonderland got griefed along with the Smp spawn while I was making it. Idk if this has been fixed but if it hasn't then using the same settings might not be smart.
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Post by Captainclimber on Apr 30, 2020 4:39:18 GMT
Vouch for Feuristic's idea.
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Post by DragonSlayer2189 on Apr 30, 2020 4:57:18 GMT
I only objected because I wasn’t sure it was practical, but thinking about it, I don’t see why we couldn’t use the same settings the master builder world has for adminworld. If people here are objecting because the very presence of an OP annoys them, then that’s dumb. Either way I switch to a vouch. Mbw was exploited a while back. Wonderland got griefed along with the Smp spawn while I was making it. Idk if this has been fixed but if it hasn't then using the same settings might not be smart. it hasnt been fixed as far as i know, and i stay pretty on top of things that get fixed, thats the major flaw with this, and also is a flaw with letting ops in mb world, thats why we dont tell many ops that u can even get to mb world
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Apr 30, 2020 9:23:18 GMT
If we get rid of the mbw then mb's really do have nothing. Until recently they didn't even have the tools necessary to actually build. The mb rank on this server, I feel, doesn't get the love it deserves. Building is something that not everyone can do and yet we treat our master builders as if they were pheasants. The master builder rank doesn't feature anything, unless of course you count the mbw which is the very thing you are proposing to remove. I mean heck a mb is still considered an op which tells me that their rank is completely ignored by most and because of that I don't think it's a good to remove even more of the little they have. You're treated the way you are because the rank implies nothing more than you can build well. No regular player sees the effect MB has had on the server. Spawns are created by random members and frequently changed. What exactly have MBs done to deserve being treated above regular operations? Even then, whats so wrong about being considered equal to the vast majority of our players (operators)? This comment can just as easily be directed towards Admins as well. Simply substitute MB with Admin and you get... Why are Admins treated the exact same way as MBs when they haven't even shown they can build well? What have Admins done on the server to deserve being treated above regular operators in regards to getting a private world and more permissions in regard to World Edit and other creative tools? Even then, whats so wrong about being considered equal to the vast majority of our players (operators)?
Perhaps there shouldn't exist any manner of hierarchy on the server, but that's for another discussion entirely. MB world and rank is objectively useless other than giving recognition to our esteemed builders. To be honest, it would be kinda cool if we made MB world some kind of showcase world for other server owners to look at, and hire our Master Builders. That would at least give them a reason to stick around and proliferate. Would be cool to make a team we could dispatch representing Total Freedom; it would give our builders recognition for their impeccable works while also being a net positive for Total Freedom's public view. Master Builder world is kind of just a playground for you guys, but I see a lot more potential in the rank/role itself. I really don't get your asseration, or rather: your 'factoid', that the MB rank is useless other than giving recognition of effort. Most, if not all other creative servers have a clear rank hierarchy, where you can progress by building. Any rank such as "Architect" or "Builder" dont' actually have any use pertained to them other than those ranks being a clear recognition of their skill and effort to advance in this hierarchy. It's obvious that a progression system gives players something to strive towards, which in itself could be considered its "use" - keeping players entertained and thus keeping a steady number of players on the server. The MB rank was created in the same vein - giving players something to strive for, in addition to also providing Total Freedom with a steady supply of maps and spawns. A few years back we frequently (talking daily basis) changed maps due to the lack of grief-protection. With the inception of the MB rank, we now had a team of builders capable of giving Total Freedom custom-made builds that could be used, so that way we had some sort of originality to the server world, instead of snatching some popular map from the MC Forums. I still believe that this should be the case - that the MB team should be providing Total Freedom with different sets of builds for different occassions (Spawns, maps or community-events). Right now, I am planning a collab with the advertisement-team, and we are also in the midst of finishing up the Hub spawn and MB world spawn. It's true that in recent time that there has been no significant changes (or "use" for that matter) to the MB rank and MB world, which was coincidentally the reason why I chose to reinstate as ECD. The reason for my resignation last time was due in part to a real lack of support from the leadership at the time, where all my proposals were promptly shut down (Seth was one of the few who at least listened to my propositions). I have plenty planned for the future, which hopefully will have a positive impact on not only the status of MB, but also the server in general. In regards to your last point: I don't think that this is going to happen on any realistic scale for two simple reasons: A) Even I can admit that my own skillset is sub-par to what bigger teams are providing. That is not to say that the MB team is shit, but we simply don't have the skill nor the numbers to realistically pursue this endeavour in any meaningful manner. B) I've done plenty of commission builds, and I can speak from experience when I say that commission builds are boring as shit. That's not to say it isn't a good idea, but I would rather have the MB team directly help the server by contributing with builds or getting the community actively engaged with server-wide events. the MB world is- and has always been a "Museum world" for the average player, where one could seek out inspiration for their own build or simply admire the work of the MB team. In addition to this, the MB world as a perk is definitely something for normal players to strive for, which again, helps to keep a steady, and engaged playerbase. This is not me just speaking out of my ass: the community has again and again disagreed with my previous calls for the removal of both the MB world and the MB rank itself, because I also didn't see its use at one point. However, these polls were vastly in favour of keeping both the rank and world. Officially? With proper infrastructure set up? How will you advert the world for potential clients/server owners? Or do you just mean setting it as a spawn? I'm kind of behind on info when it comes to MB. Could you elaborate for me lol miwo could you explain your plan please? We are planning on using the mbw to be the hub and a showcase world. Officially? With proper infrastructure set up? How will you advert the world for potential clients/server owners? Or do you just mean setting it as a spawn? I'm kind of behind on info when it comes to MB. Could you elaborate for me lol The MB world has always been a showcase world, so I don't understand why it is brought up that we are "planning on" using it as such, when it already is a museum world. In regards to merging hub- and MB world: Due to a lack of space on the server, I thought of the idea of simply placing the Hub spawn in the MB World faraway from any of the other MB Builds in the world. That way, you don't need an additional world solely dedicated for a spawn. The MB team is already discussing whether or not the previous MB world spawn should instead be chosen as the hub spawn, and then we could simply focus our efforts on a new MB world spawn. From my experience, I can say that many admins spend a substantial chunk of time in adminworld. This, in itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they respond when an OP asks for help, but one of the side effects it causes is a deep disconnect with the average TF player. As an admin, many of the builds I had in AW took multiple hours to make. However, even after years passed, I never worried that it would be griefed. This caused me to lack empathy for the average OP who spent the same amount of time building, if not more, and lost it to some griefer or flatlands reset. Admins always bring up the "save your builds" argument but to be honest it isn't always realistic. Recently, I joined TF and I built a house in an amazing cave system that an OP had built. It was a huge collaborative project and I truly enjoyed adding something to it. Now, I can't realistically save the entire cave as schem to continue later on. It would be too large of a schematic and additionally it wouldn't have the same "magic" of a build that remained in a permanent place in a world and was constantly added to. Since then, I haven't played much on TF because it personally didn't appeal to me that I had to constantly save my builds in fear of a griefer. This is something that I never felt as an admin and it caused me to empathize with how most OPs felt while I sat on my "adminworld" throne for all those years. This would be a great first step in the dissolution of the admin-OP disconnect. Adminworld isn't some secret club. If the thought of OPs merely viewing it bothers you, then you should really reevaluate why you became an admin in the first place. To be frank, the entire building-aspect of Total Freedom has been dogshit to the average OP for years, but the new plotworld is a great, simple remedy to this issue. That's not to say I actually have a real solution to the whole build-permanence-issue on the server.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 23:27:06 GMT
From my experience, I can say that many admins spend a substantial chunk of time in adminworld. This, in itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they respond when an OP asks for help, but one of the side effects it causes is a deep disconnect with the average TF player. As an admin, many of the builds I had in AW took multiple hours to make. However, even after years passed, I never worried that it would be griefed. This caused me to lack empathy for the average OP who spent the same amount of time building, if not more, and lost it to some griefer or flatlands reset. Admins always bring up the "save your builds" argument but to be honest it isn't always realistic. Recently, I joined TF and I built a house in an amazing cave system that an OP had built. It was a huge collaborative project and I truly enjoyed adding something to it. Now, I can't realistically save the entire cave as schem to continue later on. It would be too large of a schematic and additionally it wouldn't have the same "magic" of a build that remained in a permanent place in a world and was constantly added to. Since then, I haven't played much on TF because it personally didn't appeal to me that I had to constantly save my builds in fear of a griefer. This is something that I never felt as an admin and it caused me to empathize with how most OPs felt while I sat on my "adminworld" throne for all those years. This would be a great first step in the dissolution of the admin-OP disconnect. Adminworld isn't some secret club. If the thought of OPs merely viewing it bothers you, then you should really reevaluate why you became an admin in the first place. that cave system was cool. If you're talking about the original cave city I managed to schematic the entire thing. anyways everyone vote on this poll since this is very divided: totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/66574/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 2:42:16 GMT
Vouch
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Cowgomooo12
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Vaarwel, afscheid
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Post by Cowgomooo12 on May 1, 2020 7:39:36 GMT
Vouch. If we disable operators from building and performing world edit commands, I'm definitely in favor of allowing operators inside of the admin world. In addition, I would highly encourage frequent/daily backing up of the administrator world. We could use a software called rclone and configure it to use an Unlimited G Suite or Google EDU account allowing for unlimited Google drive space. We could then perform nightly backups onto the unlimited Google drive space. In addition, we could publicly share this folder allowing for a persistent archive of the administrator world. In addition to the admin world, I propose this to also be the case for the master-builder world too.
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Lykhant
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Rules are rules, set for the better of society. Breaking them taints society with chaos.
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Post by Lykhant on May 1, 2020 9:16:03 GMT
I vouch for allowing OPs inside the adminworld as long as W/E commands and building are blocked for them.
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Post by AngusYoungACDC on May 2, 2020 15:37:57 GMT
As someone who has seen the admin world a few times I believe it is safer if the common folk aren't allowed to see the Admin World. There are many sacred private things being withheld there that must be protected at all costs. One glimpse of information to the wrong person could be absolutely catastrophic. These are reasons that I must whole heatedly object.
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miwo
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Post by miwo on May 2, 2020 15:39:50 GMT
As someone who has seen the admin world a few times I believe it is safer if the common folk aren't allowed to see the Admin World. There are many sacred private things being withheld there that must be protected at all costs. One glimpse of information to the wrong person could be absolutely catastrophic. These are reasons that I must whole heatedly object. What private things?
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Wild1145
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Post by Wild1145 on May 2, 2020 15:54:01 GMT
My view is given AdminWorld was originally designed to give admins an escape from administrating and somewhere they could go without being pestered, it should remain private. It was not designed to showcase work or anything like that, and I think OP's running around in it would probably mean less people would use it, and would instead go and play somewhere else if they wanted an escape, which obviously isn't then great if there were to be a need for administrative support.
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