Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 19:17:56 GMT
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Kash
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Post by Kash on Apr 11, 2020 19:19:33 GMT
I need to be brutally honest. I even applied for the rank. However, while I do somewhat get the intent of it, Assistant Executive Admin Officer seems to be the exact same thing. Personally, I do not see a reason for this new rank.
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Darth
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Post by Darth on Apr 11, 2020 19:24:57 GMT
The issue I have is that this is (forgive the copy paste from zevante but the original post is locked): The "internal affairs" is supposed to do this: "We're here to act as an impartial judge against abuse claims as well as re-evaluate the current staff's qualifications." Yet this directly conflicts with this: "Applicants [for internal affairs] will be personally handpicked by myself and the current Total Freedom Executives." When you hand pick an executive role, that's inherently biased. Even if the community is biased towards another individual (for whatever reason) a public vote is still more democratic/unbiased than a single person or small group. Also, the job of the internal affairs team is to "act as an impartial judge against abuse claims as well as re-evaluate the current staff's qualifications." - isn't that what the Admin Officers are already doing? Internal Affairs team can't even make a decision without admin officer approval. Why not just elect a second Assistant Admin officer? tl;dr - this sounds like a whole lot of nothing wrapped in a fancy title
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Apr 11, 2020 19:33:57 GMT
If this does die because people think its useless, would everyone still be okay if zevante was appointed assistant? Really the only thing that changes is Admin officer can form a team where as currently theres no official team.
Honestly I thought this entire idea would be more liked. Everyone complains to me the the #1 problem on the server is the administration team. We have inactives, abusers, and just people not fit for admins. It's not realistic to have Nero and I track everyones activity and performance accurately with our current resources, it's just not possible.
This entire idea behind this was to improve TF's community. What happens if this gets denied? We just perform the same tasks listed under the name as assistants?
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Kash
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Post by Kash on Apr 11, 2020 19:36:02 GMT
If this does die because people think its useless, would everyone still be okay if zevante was appointed assistant? Really the only thing that changes is Admin officer can form a team where as currently theres no official yeam Since Nero is inactive for now, I don't see an issue with you having some extra assistance from him.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Apr 11, 2020 19:38:10 GMT
If this does die because people think its useless, would everyone still be okay if zevante was appointed assistant? Really the only thing that changes is Admin officer can form a team where as currently theres no official yeam I think that is the point most people are trying to make, the changes you are making are not big enough for a new title. I am fairly sure no one would have batted an eye if you had made the same changes without notifying anyone, because it is essentially an announcement that you are going to try to work together more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 19:38:24 GMT
I need to be brutally honest. I even applied for the rank. However, while I do somewhat get the intent of it, Assistant Executive Admin Officer seems to be the exact same thing. Personally, I do not see a reason for this new rank. This is one of the things I disagreed with, when I first saw it I even moved zevante to AAO. But then I reverted that because I wanted to give it a shot I guess, even if I thought it was a little bit of a dumb re-branding.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Apr 11, 2020 19:43:02 GMT
If this does die because people think its useless, would everyone still be okay if zevante was appointed assistant? Really the only thing that changes is Admin officer can form a team where as currently theres no official yeam I think that is the point most people are trying to make, the changes you are making are not big enough for a new title. I am fairly sure no one would have batted an eye if you had made the same changes without notifying anyone, because it is essentially an announcement that you going to try to work together more. Not originally my idea to have a complete rebrand. I simply woke up one day and saw that Internal Affairs was a thing. Nero and I immediately thought this heavily overlaps with what the AEO and their assistants already do. I can see the redundancy. I sat down and talked to Zevante and Robin and working together as a unit was something that we agreed on. I didn't mind rebranding because it was different. Forming a team to assist through applications, more aggressive activity and peformance tracking, atleast to me, is a very big difference than whats currently going on.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Apr 11, 2020 19:51:24 GMT
I think that is the point most people are trying to make, the changes you are making are not big enough for a new title. I am fairly sure no one would have batted an eye if you had made the same changes without notifying anyone, because it is essentially an announcement that you are going to try to work together more. Not originally my idea to have a complete rebrand. I simply woke up one day and saw that Internal Affairs was a thing. Nero and I immediately thought this heavily overlaps with what the AEO and their assistants already do. I can see the redundancy. I sat down and talked to Zevante and Robin and working together as a unit was something that we agreed on. I didn't mind rebranding because it was different. Forming a team to assist through applications, more aggressive activity and peformance tracking, atleast to me, is a very big difference than whats currently going on. So the emphasis is on recruiting a larger team rather than having just 2 or 3 people and monitoring much more actively? I don't blame you, but this was not very clear and I think making clear that these are the differences would have saved a lot of confusion.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Apr 11, 2020 19:54:54 GMT
Not originally my idea to have a complete rebrand. I simply woke up one day and saw that Internal Affairs was a thing. Nero and I immediately thought this heavily overlaps with what the AEO and their assistants already do. I can see the redundancy. I sat down and talked to Zevante and Robin and working together as a unit was something that we agreed on. I didn't mind rebranding because it was different. Forming a team to assist through applications, more aggressive activity and peformance tracking, atleast to me, is a very big difference than whats currently going on. So the emphasis is on recruiting a larger team rather than having just 2 or 3 people and monitoring much more actively? I don't blame you, but this was not very clear and I think making clear that these are the differences would have saved a lot of confusion. Yes that's the overall point of the new "rank." It's giving a team dedicated specifically to admin rehabilitation and correction.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Apr 11, 2020 21:05:38 GMT
I personally think that this would work a lot better with everybody if the community was more involved in the creation of such an Internal Affairs rank.
That is, rather than suddenly creating a thread with the information of Internal Affairs, it would have played better with people if a thread was first created with a baseline platform of what the rank entails, and how people are assigned to the rank. Basically: just allow the community to have some say in how the rank would be created prior to the announcement which was posted and whether they thought such a thing was a good idea or not. I personally think that having some sort of H.R. department (which this essentially is when I look at what the rank entails) could be beneficial as long as there is community involvement in how it operates.
To a lot of the people that criticized the idea, I think it was the rashness & suddenness that threw them off, something as major as the replacement of an executive position with a new rank with the ability to suspend admins & access to forum administrator shouldn't have been something devised in private and then suddenly announced, it should have been both devised in public to community feedback & engagement and then announced in public. That comes with 2 main benefits: people are more open to the idea since it's being devised in public, and also the community is allowed to suggest ideas and shape it in a way that is beneficial for everybody prior to it being made official.
So, my thought is, rather than doing this poll which may have a controversial result when it is locked based on what information we already have, why not go through with that process of creating a platform for people to provide their own insight into how such a system should work or what other ways we can improve the current system?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 22:15:42 GMT
I think it's important to adapt to what has recently come out exposing the corruption of TF's leadership. Currently, there's no system that provides checks and balances that could have prevented the issue at hand. How can IA be used, or changed, to act as a preventative measure from this ever happening again?
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Kash
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Post by Kash on Apr 11, 2020 22:24:02 GMT
I think it's important to adapt to what has recently come out exposing the corruption of TF's leadership. Currently, there's no system that provides checks and balances that could have prevented the issue at hand. How can IA be used, or changed, to act as a preventative measure from this ever happening again? I think it's important to have the community involved with big decisions like these. A simple voting poll would not hurt.
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Post by zevante on Apr 11, 2020 22:27:01 GMT
Edit: In response to polaris
Because TF is currently drowning in flames right now and no amount of action will bring the community to collaborate on one consensus goal. Everyone here has different opinions, and most don't understand what the role's duties are bar from what it sought to replace. We were trying to put a heavy emphasis on essentially "corruption" control and further investigate Total Freedom's systematic hierarchy to find new ways for us to take decisive action and finally progress with TF's community and move forward. However I understand that's kinda highkey communist of us to just outright announce this division without community input, but at the time I felt like it was necessary considering the rampant power balance and CURSE our community has been suffering both as of recent and as of late.
Have you ever noticed that most of the remaining active players have and always been the old admins of TF? They come and go after their year hiatuses and we all resume banter almost like nothing ever happened; retaining the same degree of stupidity and spewing out the same cringe/edgy epithets towards each other. This server now serves as nothing but a cesspool of nostalgia, and I dare say that's because this community will never accept monumental change due to both petty politics and issues with power.
The curse of Total Freedom extends to all boundaries; including my own. Even after being away from this community that I loved so much I would still hear the toxic, yet GRAND history of the community through the years from friends I have stuck with ever since the conception of TF. But every time I would find myself involved, i'd find both unnecessary stress and anxiety; especially when holding a position that directly impacts TF's social structure. I'd assume nearly all of you who have stuck around have felt the same degree of anxiety that I have. Some of you have trained to steel yourselves and not let TF impact your real life. Some of you find TF as a semi-permanent social outlet, albeit toxic. And some of you are waiting for the next coup d'etat to stage your own conspiracy. We're all divided between caring too much and caring too little for our community.
My point being made here is that yes, no division, rank, governor or dictator can control what this server's community does or think. They can only guide the people and hope they're doing their responsibilities to the best of their abilities, even under scrutiny of the public. But if we continue to stagnate and not evolve past gas lighting each other like incessant troglodytes for more drama while being shitty admins/players; Total Freedom will inevitably collapse. And you know what's the kicker? I KNOW more than half of you are aware of this, yet we still refuse to address the toxic sources in our community and think everything will be fine if we just ignore it and reconcile after someone makes an apology post that nobody will read. Some of you think it's more convenient to come up with a limpdick excuse for someone's transgressions instead of say what you really think because you're AFRAID of that unnecessary anxiety that will inevitably follow you and your forum post notifications for a fucking week.
That brings me on to my next point. For the people who understand this anxious feeling, please understand that quite literally everyone here is human. This includes whoever's the acting owner(s) of Total Freedom. Instead of bashing on people for not doing the things that you want because you feel entitled, have an actual conversation with them. You'd be surprised how many people here are receptive to just hopping on discord and talking calmly about both the political and social state of Total Freedom.
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Post by zevante on Apr 11, 2020 22:29:09 GMT
TLDR we can't do jackshit regardless because everyone's so divided and kinda toxic. Some wanna see TF die through conspiracy and others rightfully want to keep this server alive.
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