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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 26, 2020 19:35:32 GMT
because i'd love to have 2 key rollover on a keyboard designed for typing when i want a keyboard with no ghosting or the ability to hold down more than two keys at a time for gaming? i really doubt you've ever actually had a high end keyboard (yes these DO exist, search literally any £100+ corsair or any good company keyboard) or a niche keyboard like a ducky other than a model m and the fact that you're comparing that to actual full metal builds on durability is quite fasinating. again, lights. are. for. looks. and most high end durable keyboards have rgb anyways (not including the fact that in darker areas it's much easier to see keys). the point that you made of it blinding your eyes is kind of dumb anyways, you do realise that all keyboards with rgb has some sort of controller that can turn down the lights and even turn them off? and if we're talking about looks, the model m fits rarely into any builds that you want to look nice apart from retro ((which is difficult to get)). but yeah, i suppose people making their own keyboards with rgb has NO craftmanship and that intel > amd, model ms > any other keyboard N key rollover existed in IBM keyboards from the 80s/90s thanks to PS/2, so not sure what you're talking about, if anything your point is more on the side of IBM keyboards because they had that "advanced 2020 technology" 40 years ago. I sure do have a high end keyboard, it's called an IBM keyboard and it beats any damn keyboard currently on the market. You wanna bring up durability, those were produced delicately in IBM manufacturing plants and after 30 years still work better than your average keyboard on the market which is practically designed to break after a while. I'm aware that lights are for looks, but I'll take the creativity over a gimmick which everybody already has. There's no uniqueness in an RGB keyboard, there's nothing "pretty" or "cute" about having lights and the beige color on an IBM keyboard looks way better than RGB, and doesn't make every little spec of dust and hair on the keyboard ultra visible. No, RGB is not a necessity to be able to 'see the keys', hell I can rip the key labels off of whatever keyboard I'm using and still be able to type perfectly at the same speed. Unless your argument is that RGB keyboards are for people that aren't good at typing which kind of ruins the whole "high end", "cool" theme that people try to attribute to them. Completely disagree that the Model M "fits rarely into builds". You got a computer, you got a USB or PS/2 port (use a converter if USB), you plug it in, and it works perfectly. That's all you need, and the keyboard looks great and works even better. Not good enough for you? Buy an old CRT monitor with VGA off eBay, buy an IBM mouse as well, and buy an old beige computer case and put your parts in that. That's all if you're desperate for a classy computer rig, but that's overkill, the keyboard alone is fine. People making their own keyboards is great, I do think that's a recommended route if you want to put craftsmanship into your own keyboard, my point is that the market manufactured keyboards suck and that includes Razer and Corsair or what have you. Less Chinese/Taiwan/Vietnam/whatever manufacturing country exporting wage slavery built plastic/"metal" products is alright with me. Glad you brought up Intel and AMD, AMD does suck and it took them a decade to figure out how to add more cores to a CPU and act like that means anything when everything still runs on single threading. I'll take the company that prefers investing into the future and I'm more than happy to admit that Intel does engage in things such as outsourcing and crappy marketing tactics like the Core i9 with Apple although at least they understand that Moore's law is over and that quantum computing is the future. I'll admit that we're both consistent people, you fall in line with whatever hot new company is selling the hot new products and I don't fall in line with them because I don't fall for consumer traps and gimmicks.
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square
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Post by square on Mar 26, 2020 21:13:37 GMT
because i'd love to have 2 key rollover on a keyboard designed for typing when i want a keyboard with no ghosting or the ability to hold down more than two keys at a time for gaming? i really doubt you've ever actually had a high end keyboard (yes these DO exist, search literally any £100+ corsair or any good company keyboard) or a niche keyboard like a ducky other than a model m and the fact that you're comparing that to actual full metal builds on durability is quite fasinating. again, lights. are. for. looks. and most high end durable keyboards have rgb anyways (not including the fact that in darker areas it's much easier to see keys). the point that you made of it blinding your eyes is kind of dumb anyways, you do realise that all keyboards with rgb has some sort of controller that can turn down the lights and even turn them off? and if we're talking about looks, the model m fits rarely into any builds that you want to look nice apart from retro ((which is difficult to get)). but yeah, i suppose people making their own keyboards with rgb has NO craftmanship and that intel > amd, model ms > any other keyboard N key rollover existed in IBM keyboards from the 80s/90s thanks to PS/2, so not sure what you're talking about, if anything your point is more on the side of IBM keyboards because they had that "advanced 2020 technology" 40 years ago. I sure do have a high end keyboard, it's called an IBM keyboard and it beats any damn keyboard currently on the market. You wanna bring up durability, those were produced delicately in IBM manufacturing plants and after 30 years still work better than your average keyboard on the market which is practically designed to break after a while. I'm aware that lights are for looks, but I'll take the creativity over a gimmick which everybody already has. There's no uniqueness in an RGB keyboard, there's nothing "pretty" or "cute" about having lights and the beige color on an IBM keyboard looks way better than RGB, and doesn't make every little spec of dust and hair on the keyboard ultra visible. No, RGB is not a necessity to be able to 'see the keys', hell I can rip the key labels off of whatever keyboard I'm using and still be able to type perfectly at the same speed. Unless your argument is that RGB keyboards are for people that aren't good at typing which kind of ruins the whole "high end", "cool" theme that people try to attribute to them. Completely disagree that the Model M "fits rarely into builds". You got a computer, you got a USB or PS/2 port (use a converter if USB), you plug it in, and it works perfectly. That's all you need, and the keyboard looks great and works even better. Not good enough for you? Buy an old CRT monitor with VGA off eBay, buy an IBM mouse as well, and buy an old beige computer case and put your parts in that. That's all if you're desperate for a classy computer rig, but that's overkill, the keyboard alone is fine. People making their own keyboards is great, I do think that's a recommended route if you want to put craftsmanship into your own keyboard, my point is that the market manufactured keyboards suck and that includes Razer and Corsair or what have you. Less Chinese/Taiwan/Vietnam/whatever manufacturing country exporting wage slavery built plastic/"metal" products is alright with me. Glad you brought up Intel and AMD, AMD does suck and it took them a decade to figure out how to add more cores to a CPU and act like that means anything when everything still runs on single threading. I'll take the company that prefers investing into the future and I'm more than happy to admit that Intel does engage in things such as outsourcing and crappy marketing tactics like the Core i9 with Apple although at least they understand that Moore's law is over and that quantum computing is the future. I'll admit that we're both consistent people, you fall in line with whatever hot new company is selling the hot new products and I don't fall in line with them because I don't fall for consumer traps and gimmicks. you missed the part where i said "apart from model m" but alright and that the fact that you're saying modern keyboards are ""designed for breaking"" is completely false. in all GOOD keyboard factories, they stress test both the cherry keys (50 million actuations compared to ibm's 25 million, funny that) and the actual keyboards (completely metal on mine, compared to ibm's plastic front). I do agree some brands are not the best (most razer keyboards) however corsair has put out some good products over the line and to dismiss them all as "not as good as the classics" is a shame. and yes, they are made from metal. intel dominated the market in the early times, before the times where amd got their shit together and pumped out good stuff for relatively good prices (recently the new threadripper which is much better than the top tier intel but much much less, i'm assuming intel will make a comeback) also i don't buy corsair or razer products, i currently own a nice ducky (non rgb haha) keyboard which serves me well. whatever you like and i like i suppose but to push your preferences just because you have a strong opinion (and misjudging most modern keyboards because of it) on to other people i find is quite rude. but anyways, i might retry my model m if i can find it because i forgot the buckling spring feel.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 26, 2020 22:05:46 GMT
N key rollover existed in IBM keyboards from the 80s/90s thanks to PS/2, so not sure what you're talking about, if anything your point is more on the side of IBM keyboards because they had that "advanced 2020 technology" 40 years ago. I sure do have a high end keyboard, it's called an IBM keyboard and it beats any damn keyboard currently on the market. You wanna bring up durability, those were produced delicately in IBM manufacturing plants and after 30 years still work better than your average keyboard on the market which is practically designed to break after a while. I'm aware that lights are for looks, but I'll take the creativity over a gimmick which everybody already has. There's no uniqueness in an RGB keyboard, there's nothing "pretty" or "cute" about having lights and the beige color on an IBM keyboard looks way better than RGB, and doesn't make every little spec of dust and hair on the keyboard ultra visible. No, RGB is not a necessity to be able to 'see the keys', hell I can rip the key labels off of whatever keyboard I'm using and still be able to type perfectly at the same speed. Unless your argument is that RGB keyboards are for people that aren't good at typing which kind of ruins the whole "high end", "cool" theme that people try to attribute to them. Completely disagree that the Model M "fits rarely into builds". You got a computer, you got a USB or PS/2 port (use a converter if USB), you plug it in, and it works perfectly. That's all you need, and the keyboard looks great and works even better. Not good enough for you? Buy an old CRT monitor with VGA off eBay, buy an IBM mouse as well, and buy an old beige computer case and put your parts in that. That's all if you're desperate for a classy computer rig, but that's overkill, the keyboard alone is fine. People making their own keyboards is great, I do think that's a recommended route if you want to put craftsmanship into your own keyboard, my point is that the market manufactured keyboards suck and that includes Razer and Corsair or what have you. Less Chinese/Taiwan/Vietnam/whatever manufacturing country exporting wage slavery built plastic/"metal" products is alright with me. Glad you brought up Intel and AMD, AMD does suck and it took them a decade to figure out how to add more cores to a CPU and act like that means anything when everything still runs on single threading. I'll take the company that prefers investing into the future and I'm more than happy to admit that Intel does engage in things such as outsourcing and crappy marketing tactics like the Core i9 with Apple although at least they understand that Moore's law is over and that quantum computing is the future. I'll admit that we're both consistent people, you fall in line with whatever hot new company is selling the hot new products and I don't fall in line with them because I don't fall for consumer traps and gimmicks. you missed the part where i said "apart from model m" but alright and that the fact that you're saying modern keyboards are ""designed for breaking"" is completely false. in all GOOD keyboard factories, they stress test both the cherry keys (50 million actuations compared to ibm's 25 million, funny that) and the actual keyboards (completely metal on mine, compared to ibm's plastic front). I do agree some brands are not the best (most razer keyboards) however corsair has put out some good products over the line and to dismiss them all as "not as good as the classics" is a shame. and yes, they are made from metal. intel dominated the market in the early times, before the times where amd got their shit together and pumped out good stuff for relatively good prices (recently the new threadripper which is much better than the top tier intel but much much less, i'm assuming intel will make a comeback) also i don't buy corsair or razer products, i currently own a nice ducky (non rgb haha) keyboard which serves me well. whatever you like and i like i suppose but to push your preferences just because you have a strong opinion (and misjudging most modern keyboards because of it) on to other people i find is quite rude. but anyways, i might retry my model m if i can find it because i forgot the buckling spring feel. I don't even own a Model M or a Model F, I own a different IBM model and even that is exponentially better than any other keyboard that I have ever owned, and I have owned numerous different types of keyboards both with and without RGB with completely different experiences and circumstances. What I can say anecdotally is that some keyboards and mice I've owned have broken after a week of usage, some have broken after a year of usage, some have yet to break but over time start mechanically failing and glitching out. That's anecdotal, though, and I'm sure you can find endless anecdotes from just about anybody on the planet who uses peripherals (that's where it stops being an anecdotal observation and starts becoming a study). What I can say objectively is that many of the keyboard/mice tech companies outsource the manufacturing, get the cheap wage slave labor, and no craftsmanship or real stress testing goes into that process and that's where many of the peripherals on the market come from. I'm nuanced and I'm able to state that there are modern peripheral companies that are better and there are ones that are shit, however, I have yet to see a peripheral made by Corsair or what have you beating the type of peripherals that were produced decades ago that still work very well to this day. The "good stuff" is only reflected by the benchmarks and minimal differences for end users, at best their CPU works better on multithreaded applications and at worse it's just simply slightly shittier than Intel when multithreading doesn't apply (i.e. vast majority of cases). At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the performance that end users actually notice, that's why I have never understood why people would buy a Core i9 or even the more expensive NVIDIA GPUs over the cheaper ones. I guarantee that at least 90% of people that own a Core i9 or a GeForce RTX don't do anything where they wouldn't be completely satiated by just an i5 and a GTX 1050, but these companies get filthy fucking rich by everybody just "having to have" the "top of the line" even if it's just wasting their own money, hell they're paying for brands more than they're paying for technology. I think Intel does realize this + the fact that AMD is going to crash later on when they aren't able to innovate and that's why they're going to be increasingly relevant years from now when there is demand for innovation. NVIDIA has been innovating their GPUs though, the RTX 2080 is amazing and the technology it has will actually only be more useful in the future because it's progressed faster than software has, so AMD is nowhere near them on that front, I just don't think that 90% of people need an RTX at all for the price when even a GTX 1050 or 1060 is extremely satisfactory. Of course I'm going to push my preferences, that's why human interaction exists and I hope people don't post threads showing off their setups and builds just because they want nothing but adoration instead of criticism. I consider my criticism to be fully constructive which is why I see no issue with it, and I don't think I'm misjudging most modern keyboards, the only companies I've seen mentioned so far are Corsair and Razer and how much of the peripheral market do those two represent when considering how many manufacturers and competitors there are?
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Video
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Post by Video on Mar 27, 2020 5:15:56 GMT
can i just remind y'all that this thread is not a place to shill mechanical keyboards of the past and present, nor is it the place to shill intel/amd. it's supposed to be about premintex's cool looking new gaming setup
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 27, 2020 5:23:59 GMT
can i just remind y'all that this thread is not a place to shill mechanical keyboards of the past and present, nor is it the place to shill intel/amd. it's supposed to be about premintex's cool looking new gaming setup Are we not allowed to talk about technology in a board called tech talk? Did you expect there to be a 3 page thread with posts of nothing other than "cool setup"?
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Video
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Post by Video on Mar 27, 2020 5:25:50 GMT
Are we not allowed to talk about technology in a board called tech talk? Did you expect there to be a 3 page thread with posts of nothing other than "cool setup"? hence why i said "this thread" and not "this forum"
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 27, 2020 5:27:48 GMT
Are we not allowed to talk about technology in a board called tech talk? Did you expect there to be a 3 page thread with posts of nothing other than "cool setup"? hence why i said "this thread" and not "this forum" Still disagree. Who posts a thread to show off their setup only to expect 0 criticism? This is absolutely the place to discuss this and is related to the choices of the OP.
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Video
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Post by Video on Mar 27, 2020 5:36:34 GMT
hence why i said "this thread" and not "this forum" Still disagree. Who posts a thread to show off their setup only to expect 0 criticism? This is absolutely the place to discuss this and is related to the choices of the OP. your criticisms devolved into you shilling intel out of nowhere and an argument over the quality of products you've never used
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 27, 2020 5:47:56 GMT
Still disagree. Who posts a thread to show off their setup only to expect 0 criticism? This is absolutely the place to discuss this and is related to the choices of the OP. your criticisms devolved into you shilling intel out of nowhere and an argument over the quality of products you've never used I wasn't the one who brought that up, I chose to respond to it. The only thing hijacking this thread right now, as per usual, is the meta discussion of whether it is being hijacked or not, and it most clearly isn't otherwise unless the new rule is people aren't allowed to talk about the tech related to builds in a thread about PC builds in a board called tech talk.
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Mar 27, 2020 9:54:35 GMT
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miwo
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Post by miwo on Mar 27, 2020 13:20:52 GMT
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 27, 2020 15:34:16 GMT
I agree with this, this is objectively correct. The low IQ mongoloids are attracted to the lights.
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Super
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Post by Super on Mar 28, 2020 21:15:11 GMT
you missed the part where i said "apart from model m" but alright and that the fact that you're saying modern keyboards are ""designed for breaking"" is completely false. in all GOOD keyboard factories, they stress test both the cherry keys (50 million actuations compared to ibm's 25 million, funny that) and the actual keyboards (completely metal on mine, compared to ibm's plastic front). I do agree some brands are not the best (most razer keyboards) however corsair has put out some good products over the line and to dismiss them all as "not as good as the classics" is a shame. and yes, they are made from metal. intel dominated the market in the early times, before the times where amd got their shit together and pumped out good stuff for relatively good prices (recently the new threadripper which is much better than the top tier intel but much much less, i'm assuming intel will make a comeback) also i don't buy corsair or razer products, i currently own a nice ducky (non rgb haha) keyboard which serves me well. whatever you like and i like i suppose but to push your preferences just because you have a strong opinion (and misjudging most modern keyboards because of it) on to other people i find is quite rude. but anyways, i might retry my model m if i can find it because i forgot the buckling spring feel. I don't even own a Model M or a Model F, I own a different IBM model and even that is exponentially better than any other keyboard that I have ever owned, and I have owned numerous different types of keyboards both with and without RGB with completely different experiences and circumstances. What I can say anecdotally is that some keyboards and mice I've owned have broken after a week of usage, some have broken after a year of usage, some have yet to break but over time start mechanically failing and glitching out. That's anecdotal, though, and I'm sure you can find endless anecdotes from just about anybody on the planet who uses peripherals (that's where it stops being an anecdotal observation and starts becoming a study). What I can say objectively is that many of the keyboard/mice tech companies outsource the manufacturing, get the cheap wage slave labor, and no craftsmanship or real stress testing goes into that process and that's where many of the peripherals on the market come from. I'm nuanced and I'm able to state that there are modern peripheral companies that are better and there are ones that are shit, however, I have yet to see a peripheral made by Corsair or what have you beating the type of peripherals that were produced decades ago that still work very well to this day. The "good stuff" is only reflected by the benchmarks and minimal differences for end users, at best their CPU works better on multithreaded applications and at worse it's just simply slightly shittier than Intel when multithreading doesn't apply (i.e. vast majority of cases). At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the performance that end users actually notice, that's why I have never understood why people would buy a Core i9 or even the more expensive NVIDIA GPUs over the cheaper ones. I guarantee that at least 90% of people that own a Core i9 or a GeForce RTX don't do anything where they wouldn't be completely satiated by just an i5 and a GTX 1050, but these companies get filthy fucking rich by everybody just "having to have" the "top of the line" even if it's just wasting their own money, hell they're paying for brands more than they're paying for technology. I think Intel does realize this + the fact that AMD is going to crash later on when they aren't able to innovate and that's why they're going to be increasingly relevant years from now when there is demand for innovation. NVIDIA has been innovating their GPUs though, the RTX 2080 is amazing and the technology it has will actually only be more useful in the future because it's progressed faster than software has, so AMD is nowhere near them on that front, I just don't think that 90% of people need an RTX at all for the price when even a GTX 1050 or 1060 is extremely satisfactory. Of course I'm going to push my preferences, that's why human interaction exists and I hope people don't post threads showing off their setups and builds just because they want nothing but adoration instead of criticism. I consider my criticism to be fully constructive which is why I see no issue with it, and I don't think I'm misjudging most modern keyboards, the only companies I've seen mentioned so far are Corsair and Razer and how much of the peripheral market do those two represent when considering how many manufacturers and competitors there are? While it's true AMD isn't really innovative, they won't become irrelevant as long as they keep doing their own job of providing some degree of competition that keeps Intel and Nvidia in check. If AMD does go away, it would be really bad for everyone since it would give Intel and Nvidia a true monopoly. Both of them have proven in the past that they cannot be trusted to handle the market without any form of competition.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Mar 28, 2020 21:57:06 GMT
I don't even own a Model M or a Model F, I own a different IBM model and even that is exponentially better than any other keyboard that I have ever owned, and I have owned numerous different types of keyboards both with and without RGB with completely different experiences and circumstances. What I can say anecdotally is that some keyboards and mice I've owned have broken after a week of usage, some have broken after a year of usage, some have yet to break but over time start mechanically failing and glitching out. That's anecdotal, though, and I'm sure you can find endless anecdotes from just about anybody on the planet who uses peripherals (that's where it stops being an anecdotal observation and starts becoming a study). What I can say objectively is that many of the keyboard/mice tech companies outsource the manufacturing, get the cheap wage slave labor, and no craftsmanship or real stress testing goes into that process and that's where many of the peripherals on the market come from. I'm nuanced and I'm able to state that there are modern peripheral companies that are better and there are ones that are shit, however, I have yet to see a peripheral made by Corsair or what have you beating the type of peripherals that were produced decades ago that still work very well to this day. The "good stuff" is only reflected by the benchmarks and minimal differences for end users, at best their CPU works better on multithreaded applications and at worse it's just simply slightly shittier than Intel when multithreading doesn't apply (i.e. vast majority of cases). At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the performance that end users actually notice, that's why I have never understood why people would buy a Core i9 or even the more expensive NVIDIA GPUs over the cheaper ones. I guarantee that at least 90% of people that own a Core i9 or a GeForce RTX don't do anything where they wouldn't be completely satiated by just an i5 and a GTX 1050, but these companies get filthy fucking rich by everybody just "having to have" the "top of the line" even if it's just wasting their own money, hell they're paying for brands more than they're paying for technology. I think Intel does realize this + the fact that AMD is going to crash later on when they aren't able to innovate and that's why they're going to be increasingly relevant years from now when there is demand for innovation. NVIDIA has been innovating their GPUs though, the RTX 2080 is amazing and the technology it has will actually only be more useful in the future because it's progressed faster than software has, so AMD is nowhere near them on that front, I just don't think that 90% of people need an RTX at all for the price when even a GTX 1050 or 1060 is extremely satisfactory. Of course I'm going to push my preferences, that's why human interaction exists and I hope people don't post threads showing off their setups and builds just because they want nothing but adoration instead of criticism. I consider my criticism to be fully constructive which is why I see no issue with it, and I don't think I'm misjudging most modern keyboards, the only companies I've seen mentioned so far are Corsair and Razer and how much of the peripheral market do those two represent when considering how many manufacturers and competitors there are? While it's true AMD isn't really innovative, they won't become irrelevant as long as they keep doing their own job of providing some degree of competition that keeps Intel and Nvidia in check. If AMD does go away, it would be really bad for everyone since it would give Intel and Nvidia a true monopoly. Both of them have proven in the past that they cannot be trusted to handle the market without any form of competition. AMD has never been at competing level with NVIDIA, top of the line NVIDIA cards have always blown AMD/ATI out of the water, it's just that NVIDIA is more expensive except it's always been that way.
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Super
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Post by Super on Mar 29, 2020 0:04:57 GMT
While it's true AMD isn't really innovative, they won't become irrelevant as long as they keep doing their own job of providing some degree of competition that keeps Intel and Nvidia in check. If AMD does go away, it would be really bad for everyone since it would give Intel and Nvidia a true monopoly. Both of them have proven in the past that they cannot be trusted to handle the market without any form of competition. AMD has never been at competing level with NVIDIA, top of the line NVIDIA cards have always blown AMD/ATI out of the water, it's just that NVIDIA is more expensive except it's always been that way. That was true until RDNA enabled AMD to be competitive against NVIDIA, much like how Ryzen enabled AMD to be competitive against Intel. You're right in that RDNA doesn't have top end products, but AMD's main goal this generation was to compete in the mid to high end market, which RDNA has done well. If RDNA was a failure in that regard, NVIDIA's Super cards would not exist. RDNA 2, however, is supposed to compete at the top end, and the performance is looking very promising with the shown performance of the Xbox Series X and PS5, which uses a modified version of that architecture. NVIDIA is also planning a big leap in performance next generation, and if RDNA 2 isn't supposed to be any good then NVIDIA's next generation would just be another ripoff.
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