Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 21:45:34 GMT
What concrete things do we need funds for? "Expansion" seems very vague to me and does not at all explain how the server would benefit from it. - More funds would go to the advertising department so that we could actually advertise the server a lot more than just "post about the server a lot on the Minecraft forums". G has a lot of plans to make the server as popular as it once was before, and I believe that allowing donations would in turn fund his quest to make these plans happen.
- Because an increased player count would put a lot of weight on the server, we would need to upgrade our hardware so that it can handle it. That costs quite a bit of money.
- We could pay for professional-grade developers to fix and optimize our plugins as well as patch any exploits that might come up.
This minus paying devs. TFM isn't complicated, optimization is easy. Why pay people when I can do it myself
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speed
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Post by speed on Feb 5, 2020 21:47:31 GMT
how?? vouch, voluntary funding at one's own will should be allowed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 21:48:57 GMT
I love how in my thread about donations everyone called me dumb and in this thread ya'll actually considering it xd
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 21:49:53 GMT
What concrete things do we need funds for? "Expansion" seems very vague to me and does not at all explain how the server would benefit from it. Maybe paying for a hub server?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 21:53:12 GMT
I love how in my thread about donations everyone called me dumb and in this thread ya'll actually considering it xd Because when people see the word donation people instantly think someone is broke. Also at the time people kept saying its against the TFM license despite not a single thing being said about it in the license
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zeseryu
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Post by zeseryu on Feb 5, 2020 22:04:30 GMT
I love how in my thread about donations everyone called me dumb and in this thread ya'll actually considering it xd you are not the first person to create a "allow donations" thread
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?Robin
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Post by ?Robin on Feb 5, 2020 22:16:29 GMT
Nothing is preventing us from accepting donations. We just need community support. i thought the totalfreedommod policy meant you can't github.com/TotalFreedom/TotalFreedomMod/blob/devel/LICENSE.mdin the most simplest terms: you may not redistribute the plugin in a binary form, you cannot remove the software contributors names (basically the developers), the copyright holders (steven and jerom) cannot be used as an example to promote an item, or a spin off of tfm, and some of said conditions can be permanently or temporarily waived by one of the copyright holders, and redistributions (basically a fork of tfm) needs to have the license in their own repository, and you cannot make a sub license if you're running a fork of tfm, unless the copyright holder allows you to do so and then warranty: it's provided "as is" therefore, they claim no responsibility if shit goes crazy What concrete things do we need funds for? "Expansion" seems very vague to me and does not at all explain how the server would benefit from it. Maybe paying for a hub server? no- We could pay for professional-grade developers to fix and optimize our plugins as well as patch any exploits that might come up.
yeah, nah... if we want to ever pay for a developer, we're gonna pay them well, if we can't, we won't. even with donations, it wouldn't reach the need on what they desire First of all Seth , I appreciate its for 'growing' the server, but as video points out, this server was popular before when it wasnt accepting donations or had so many other servers. Second of all, I think you have already made your mind up so ideally - you should do it through third party fundraising sites (ideally ones with the lowest platform fees) and instead of having constant donations, have specific donation goals at appropriate times explaining what that amount of money is paying for and why it is needed and proof that it is the the correct amount and what players should expect to see as a result. Lastly, I appreciate I am annoying and the donations would likely help the server. Sometimes you need a devils advocate. tbh patreon would work just fine for what you'd want to prefer, because you pretty much can just do all of that
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tozzit
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Post by tozzit on Feb 5, 2020 22:16:52 GMT
First of all @creeperseth , I appreciate its for 'growing' the server, but as video points out, this server was popular before when it wasnt accepting donations or had so many other servers.
Second of all, I think you have already made your mind up so ideally - you should do it through third party fundraising sites (ideally ones with the lowest platform fees) and instead of having constant donations, have specific donation goals at appropriate times explaining what that amount of money is paying for and why it is needed and proof that it is the the correct amount and what players should expect to see as a result.
Lastly, I appreciate I am annoying and the donations would likely help the server. Sometimes you need a devils advocate.
EDIT: I do disagree completely with offering perks for donations
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 22:36:03 GMT
First of all @creeperseth , I appreciate its for 'growing' the server, but as video points out, this server was popular before when it wasnt accepting donations or had so many other servers. Second of all, I think you have already made your mind up so ideally - you should do it through third party fundraising sites (ideally ones with the lowest platform fees) and instead of having constant donations, have specific donation goals at appropriate times explaining what that amount of money is paying for and why it is needed and proof that it is the the correct amount and what players should expect to see as a result. Lastly, I appreciate I am annoying and the donations would likely help the server. Sometimes you need a devils advocate. Of course I'm gonna prove what x costs, I'm going to have to work out a system of donation perks, and for a platform for fundraising I'd probably just use patreon.
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?? MrPerson660 ??
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Post by ?? MrPerson660 ?? on Feb 6, 2020 3:20:20 GMT
I think accepting donations would be good, but since we currently can't really provide any tangible benefit to the donators I think we need to establish a pretty comprehensive terms of service agreement (not like anyone would read it or anything, just to cover our asses legally if someone donates and then tries to contest it).
In many Minecraft servers, players often consider "donations" as purchasing packages that offer tangible benefits to them in-game. I personally don't see a way of us being able to do that here, so we would need to make it absolutely, perfectly clear to them that donations wouldn't provide any extra power or ranks (or that such benefits are still being determined). This may not apply to us as we are not a PVP server, but we also have to tread carefully with the perks that we'd be offering as well- after all pay-to-win is against Minecraft's terms of service and any perceived breach of this would make us liable if they ever decide to start enforcing it.
I'm just saying that once we start planning to accept money we would have to start treading very, very carefully from a legal standpoint. I don't want anyone here to have litigation against them because of a sloppily handled donation system, as has happened on various game platforms in the past.
Many people view these things as problems that happen with someone else, but we are all someone else to someone else.
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Post by Telesphoreo on Feb 6, 2020 3:25:47 GMT
I think donations should be allowed. We can have some sort of Buycraft-like system where maybe you get more coins for the shop, or you get cool perks. I remember CJFreedom had donations (I was a "senior donator" lmfao), but i don't remember what the perks were.
Donations should be allowed under the condition that the money that is received and how it is spent is completely transparent. This would include: - How much money was received - What the person purchased (if there's anything specific) - A compilation of the amount of money TF makes in a month - What the money is actually going to
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 3:30:23 GMT
Vouch
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Feb 6, 2020 4:10:05 GMT
I cannot in good faith agree with allowing donations.
I think it would be more beneficial for the owner of the server to pay for any assets required by the server. If the community is paying the bills, then why should they not have absolute authority over the server? The reason why this community is not a "democracy" is because nobody here pays the bills, that's why there is an owner. If we're going to have community assets paid for by the community, then it makes little sense for the community to not additionally receive the power & responsibility that comes with it. As Steven suggested in a different thread, it makes more sense for the owner to be paying for their own property.
Additionally, it would contradict a core value of the server that nobody has really disagreed with for ages. Nobody in the past really had a major contention to Mark's strong position against donations, if anything it assured people that he had everything under control and that we have what we have without the community even needing to chip in.
Plus, it's too vague what an "expansion" would entail, or why it would necessitate donations. The infrastructure required for a Minecraft server is extremely cheap, if we're having difficulty keeping our dedicated server stable enough to even be able to run a Minecraft server + whatever expansions are in mind then that says more about a lack of optimization of the server which should not be solved by throwing money at it.
Another problem is that with the amount of hours that admins put into the server, it would eventually come into question why they shouldn't receive money under a system of donations. This is a valid concern because we have no clue what amount of money would be received from donations, and the most active admins can literally be working for hours.
I think that the potential for this to turn into a slippery slope is just too powerful. For instance, the premise is that this money would be going towards infrastructure for expansions, but it has already been suggested even by Seth perks for donating. If we go down this path, core values of this server risk being lost and we'll be in with the rest of the "crowd" of servers for this game, asking for donations and then offering all of these perks and probably a donator rank if we're being honest for donating. Why is there such an urge to remove these core values instead of simply using the uniqueness of this server as an opportunity to improve ourselves with those values in mind?
I don't believe at all that there would be many legal concerns with this, for example I don't believe at all this would be in violation of a license, however creating a donation system does put any server really at risk of anything any time real money is involved, especially if we do start offering perks.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Feb 6, 2020 12:36:36 GMT
I don't believe at all that there would be many legal concerns with this, for example I don't believe at all this would be in violation of a license, however creating a donation system does put any server really at risk of anything any time real money is involved, especially if we do start offering perks. A specific legal concern that actually matters is violating the Mojang EULA. You are only allowed to offer perks that affect everyone equally when one person buys them and cosmetics. The rules have been incredibly vague and inconsistent, and if Mojang doesn't like you, they will permanently take your server offline by blacklisting it. What makes it even better is that there is no precedent at all for a server like this, so we are pretty much just guessing.
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