Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 1:03:43 GMT
Yes, it hasn't been used in a while, but that doesn't mean it can't be. I will make a thread with all the evidence against him when I return home unless Robin does it before me. I am going to update rule 1q right now because I forgot to include the discord server as well. How is it fair to retroactively update a rule after the individual was already banned? Things don't work this way, you don't put somebody in prison then update the law to make it valid. If the rule wasn't used in the first place, then it makes little sense to me to enforce it in a specific case especially considering the fact that the individual has no ability to defend themselves. Oh jesus dude this isn't someone we're putting in jail. Don't compare it to something like that. It was a simple thing I forgot to add. We gave him and opportunity to defend himself and he blew it.
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jan 18, 2020 1:07:15 GMT
How is it fair to retroactively update a rule after the individual was already banned? Things don't work this way, you don't put somebody in prison then update the law to make it valid. If the rule wasn't used in the first place, then it makes little sense to me to enforce it in a specific case especially considering the fact that the individual has no ability to defend themselves. Oh jesus dude this isn't someone we're putting in jail. Don't compare it to something like that. It was a simple thing I forgot to add. We gave him and opportunity to defend himself and he blew it. Whatever you want to say about the rest of the situation, retroactively changing a policy to add on an extra punishment because you want to justify why you gave it isn't alright
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 1:11:20 GMT
Oh jesus dude this isn't someone we're putting in jail. Don't compare it to something like that. It was a simple thing I forgot to add. We gave him and opportunity to defend himself and he blew it. Whatever you want to say about the rest of the situation, retroactively changing a policy to add on an extra punishment because you want to justify why you gave it isn't alright Regardless, considering the fact the soon to be publicly available to see offenses were committed over discord, it was justified either way.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 1:17:30 GMT
Whatever you want to say about the rest of the situation, retroactively changing a policy to add on an extra punishment because you want to justify why you gave it isn't alright Regardless, considering the fact the soon to be publicly available to see offenses were committed over discord, it was justified either way. That actually further raises it into question. How would it be a forum sanction if they were committed over discord??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 1:26:09 GMT
Regardless, considering the fact the soon to be publicly available to see offenses were committed over discord, it was justified either way. That actually further raises it into question. How would it be a forum sanction if they were committed over discord?? Because a forum sanction was suggested for it and was vouched for by the community
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 1:30:14 GMT
That actually further raises it into question. How would it be a forum sanction if they were committed over discord?? Because a forum sanction was suggested for it and was vouched for by the community totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/8134Sorry, but he could not have been forum banned unless the forum rules were violated, and the community encompasses more than whichever admins chose to post on a sanction request. If he was banned from the forum based off of only something that was on the discord, then that is not valid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 1:43:23 GMT
Because a forum sanction was suggested for it and was vouched for by the community totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/8134Sorry, but he could not have been forum banned unless the forum rules were violated, and the community encompasses more than whichever admins chose to post on a sanction request. If he was banned from the forum based off of only something that was on the discord, then that is not valid. This is how I see it: if you are willing to do something on one platform, what stops you from doing it on another? This is why Zaid is banned from all platforms: Personal attacks. Who was he personally attacking? Nero. What was he doing? He was being anti-semetic. Zaid clearly had something against Nero, therefore I removed any possibility for him to continue to attack Nero. I do not want to see any anti-semitism or any other type of discrimination take place anywhere on my server. If I see it, I am going to remove you from this community. So I did just that: he is forum banned, server perm banned, and discord banned. Plain and simple. I may jokingly say the n word, but I will never actually discriminate someone just for that reason. And in the case of Zaid, he was attacking Nero just for that reason.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 1:50:49 GMT
totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/8134Sorry, but he could not have been forum banned unless the forum rules were violated, and the community encompasses more than whichever admins chose to post on a sanction request. If he was banned from the forum based off of only something that was on the discord, then that is not valid. This is how I see it: if you are willing to do something on one platform, what stops you from doing it on another? This is why Zaid is banned from all platforms: Personal attacks. Who was he personally attacking? Nero. What was he doing? He was being anti-semetic. Zaid clearly had something against Nero, therefore I removed any possibility for him to continue to attack Nero. I do not want to see any anti-semitism or any other type of discrimination take place anywhere on my server. If I see it, I am going to remove you from this community. So I did just that: he is forum banned, server perm banned, and discord banned. Plain and simple. I may jokingly say the n word, but I will never actually discriminate someone just for that reason. And in the case of Zaid, he was attacking Nero just for that reason. Again, this is something that nobody has seen or knew about, and still has no visible evidence for. Just going off of your summary of it doesn't give me a clue of how he was attacking Nero but saying the n word genuinely offends many black people whether you meant it as a joke or not, do I have a problem with it? Obviously not, but many people do. For all I know the context of the situation he could've been joking, just as you use racial slurs as jokes. It's literally the same thing. Do I know if this is actually what happened? No, because everything about this is hidden. Point is, though, why keep all of these policies in place if they're just going to be thrown away at the end of the day?
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Video
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Post by Video on Jan 18, 2020 2:07:49 GMT
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 2:13:31 GMT
If these concerns were not the basis of the sanction request, then he cannot be banned for them. Retroactively finding evidence for punishments is not how we do things around here nor should it be. In addition to this, that is not even close to a violation of the forum rules. No, he wasn't being polite in his attitude, but if that's warranting of a forum ban then I should feel free to start compiling lists of admins that should immediately be banned for the forum for not being "civil." This retroactive confirmation bias evidence seeking for punishments is frankly retarded and we shouldn't at all be named Total Freedom if this is how we go after senior admins that have been here for years.
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mibbzz
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Post by mibbzz on Jan 18, 2020 2:15:15 GMT
totalfreedom.boards.net/thread/8134Sorry, but he could not have been forum banned unless the forum rules were violated, and the community encompasses more than whichever admins chose to post on a sanction request. If he was banned from the forum based off of only something that was on the discord, then that is not valid. This is how I see it: if you are willing to do something on one platform, what stops you from doing it on another? This is why Zaid is banned from all platforms: Personal attacks. Who was he personally attacking? Nero. What was he doing? He was being anti-semetic. Out of curiosity, what's acceptable to call someone? If calling someone the n word is perfectly acceptable, and done so by you, what's the limit for language? Genuinely curious here, because my understanding was sanctions based on wording was pulled back a good bit
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Video
Forum Admin
An op's rights activist
Posts: 5,585
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IGN: VideoGameSmash12, videogamesm12
Old IGN: https://namemc.com/profile/VideoGameSmash12.2, https://namemc.com/profile/videogamesm12.1
Discord: Video#9801
Birthdate (MM/DD): 07/16
Timezone: UTC-07:00
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Post by Video on Jan 18, 2020 2:28:30 GMT
If these concerns were not the basis of the sanction request, then he cannot be banned for them. Retroactively finding evidence for punishments is not how we do things around here nor should it be. In addition to this, that is not even close to a violation of the forum rules. No, he wasn't being polite in his attitude, but if that's warranting of a forum ban then I should feel free to start compiling lists of admins that should immediately be banned for the forum for not being "civil." This retroactive confirmation bias evidence seeking for punishments is frankly retarded and we shouldn't at all be named Total Freedom if this is how we go after senior admins that have been here for years. jesus christ if i had a dollar for every time someone claimed bias on this fucking server, i'd could pay for the damn thing for months
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 2:32:05 GMT
If these concerns were not the basis of the sanction request, then he cannot be banned for them. Retroactively finding evidence for punishments is not how we do things around here nor should it be. In addition to this, that is not even close to a violation of the forum rules. No, he wasn't being polite in his attitude, but if that's warranting of a forum ban then I should feel free to start compiling lists of admins that should immediately be banned for the forum for not being "civil." This retroactive confirmation bias evidence seeking for punishments is frankly retarded and we shouldn't at all be named Total Freedom if this is how we go after senior admins that have been here for years. jesus christ if i had a dollar for every time someone claimed bias on this fucking server, i'd could pay for the damn thing for months Yes, confirmation bias. You had the pretenses of finding evidence that could connect Zaid to a violation of the forum rules, and therefore you did even though it's absolutely not forum ban worthy unless under an extreme interpretation of the rules that we don't use when handling punishments on a place named Total Freedom. That's sort of what happens when you try to retroactively justify a punishment, so how about we actually follow the policies and not do that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 2:44:28 GMT
This is how I see it: if you are willing to do something on one platform, what stops you from doing it on another? This is why Zaid is banned from all platforms: Personal attacks. Who was he personally attacking? Nero. What was he doing? He was being anti-semetic. Out of curiosity, what's acceptable to call someone? If calling someone the n word is perfectly acceptable, and done so by you, what's the limit for language? Genuinely curious here, because my understanding was sanctions based on wording was pulled back a good bit Intent has to be taken into consideration. I may of said it to other people in the past, and I do regret doing so. In Zaids case, what was said here can be interpreted as a joke. ( i.imgur.com/BBdunLy.png), But then his actions i.ibb.co/RzwVL7W/20200114-164102.jpg, i.ibb.co/jr2nRL3/20200114-164124.jpg, i.ibb.co/NtrM5DQ/20200114-164136.jpg, and i.ibb.co/jy065xz/20200114-164152.jpg were completely uncalled for and out of no where. This leads me to believe because Nero is in fact jewish, he is attacking her for that. And because of that, I feel as if the previous interpreted jokes from the server chat are sincere.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 2:51:31 GMT
Out of curiosity, what's acceptable to call someone? If calling someone the n word is perfectly acceptable, and done so by you, what's the limit for language? Genuinely curious here, because my understanding was sanctions based on wording was pulled back a good bit Intent has to be taken into consideration. I may of said it to other people in the past, and I do regret doing so. In Zaids case, what was said here can be interpreted as a joke. ( i.imgur.com/BBdunLy.png), But then his actions i.ibb.co/RzwVL7W/20200114-164102.jpg, i.ibb.co/jr2nRL3/20200114-164124.jpg, i.ibb.co/NtrM5DQ/20200114-164136.jpg, and i.ibb.co/jy065xz/20200114-164152.jpg were completely uncalled for and out of no where. This leads me to believe because Nero is in fact jewish, he is attacking her for that. And because of that, I feel as if the previous interpreted jokes from the server chat are sincere. What he said in the images was absolutely unacceptable, but you also have to consider the principle of charity, and it is the least charitable interpretation of what he said that it's anti-Semitic. The first image seemed to be just jokes, honestly not as bad as calling people an actual racial slur. The other images did not mention anything related to antisemitism at all, so it's an uncharitable connect the dots game based on unreasonable assumptions. I don't see how he should be blamed for antisemitism or racism more so than you should be blamed for racism by this logic, and I'm not blaming you at all, I'm simply being consistent and employing some nuance in my observations of this. I don't see how these bans/sanctions were valid in any way whatsoever. Some sort of punishment seems valid for the insults since that's not exactly something that we want, but that isn't what he was punished for from what I saw and a forum sanction based on it is invalid because it happened on the discord. Since he was suspended at the time of the images, you should've just treated it like any other person on the discord insulting somebody and restrict any action to that platform.
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