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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:10:58 GMT
Zaid, who was just the Executive Admin Officer of this server, was permbanned from the forum, server, and discord without any proper execution of policy that has existed on this server for the past decade. If you suggest that somebody has violated the rules and should therefore be permbanned, you post a permban request and have a vote on it like with absolutely anybody else. Treating somebody who has been at such a high position on this server like this is not acceptable even if there is a valid argument that they violated rules or were suspended.
I don't really care who banned them or for what reason (don't try to argue that there was massive emergency enabling a bypass of due process), but this goes against the name of this server and is an outright rejection of this server's policies. If we're willing to grant Panther all of these exceptions and loopholes for such an amount of time, why would we jump straight into trying to ban somebody who was just the 2nd or 3rd most powerful person on this server from every TF-related platform for a reason that we cannot even see?
I'm not arguing that Zaid is innocent, I am literally unable to argue that or the opposite because I have zero access to any of the evidence or information, but this strikes me as administrative malpractice to rush such a high level individual who has been an admin for a fair portion of this server's existence out without even having the decency to provide due process.
I'd like to see a good explanation justifying a bypass of this server's systems to rush out a senior admin, even a suspended one (which was apparently invalidated as well? but not in this particular case?), or better yet a retraction of this and an attempt to follow policy. This is ridiculous.
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kai
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if she dont play the craft she don't get the shaft
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Post by kai on Jan 18, 2020 0:17:07 GMT
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tozzit
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Post by tozzit on Jan 18, 2020 0:18:30 GMT
ahh yes the op accessible thread i see
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:19:28 GMT
1. Inaccessible to the rest of this server. 2. Sanction request != permban request.
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kai
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if she dont play the craft she don't get the shaft
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Post by kai on Jan 18, 2020 0:19:33 GMT
ahh yes the op accessible thread i see posted it mainly for admins to view, but still. shouldn't assume we didn't follow policy, you look dumb :/
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kai
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if she dont play the craft she don't get the shaft
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Post by kai on Jan 18, 2020 0:22:00 GMT
1. Inaccessible to the rest of this server. 2. Sanction request != permban request. his punishment was ban from the forums for 2 weeks. while i agree we didn't make a permban req, ban from the forums also = not allowed on the server.
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tozzit
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Post by tozzit on Jan 18, 2020 0:23:01 GMT
ahh yes the op accessible thread i see posted it mainly for admins to view, but still. shouldn't assume we didn't follow policy, you look dumb :/ i didnt assume that? lmao
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kai
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if she dont play the craft she don't get the shaft
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Post by kai on Jan 18, 2020 0:23:58 GMT
posted it mainly for admins to view, but still. shouldn't assume we didn't follow policy, you look dumb :/ i didnt assume that? lmao i mean you in general, as in anyone who believes that. not directed at you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 0:24:44 GMT
Because he's banned from the forums for two weeks he is banned from the server and discord server.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:24:48 GMT
1. Inaccessible to the rest of this server. 2. Sanction request != permban request. his punishment was ban from the forums for 2 weeks. while i agree we didn't make a permban req, ban from the forums also = not allowed on the server. Not only are we not able to view the evidence or this sanction request at all, and it was also not communicated whatsoever that a sanction request existed, that does not guarantee a ban from the server. You can only be permbanned from the server as a result from a forum ban having certain conditions been met if I recall correctly. In addition to this, he was not able to defend himself at all because he did not have access to the sanction request (which is why I argued a while ago that sanctions should be public if permbans are also public), that's holding an entire court case and ruling guilty without the defendant even present and also not executing policy correctly by then using a forum sanction to completely permban from the server and discord.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:28:03 GMT
Because he's banned from the forums for two weeks he is banned from the server and discord server. This would be rule 1q, a rule which god knows when has been last executed and also does not apply to the discord server under the conduct policy. In addition to this, there is no transparency behind the process that resulted in this or the ability for the individual to defend themselves aside from an email appeal which is kind of contradictory because it applies to a server permban which wasn't put in place as a result of a server permban.
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kai
Veteran Member
if she dont play the craft she don't get the shaft
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Post by kai on Jan 18, 2020 0:30:11 GMT
his punishment was ban from the forums for 2 weeks. while i agree we didn't make a permban req, ban from the forums also = not allowed on the server. Not only are we not able to view the evidence or this sanction request at all, and it was also not communicated whatsoever that a sanction request existed, that does not guarantee a ban from the server. You can only be permbanned from the server as a result from a forum ban having certain conditions been met if I recall correctly. In addition to this, he was not able to defend himself at all because he did not have access to the sanction request (which is why I argued a while ago that sanctions should be public if permbans are also public), that's holding an entire court case and ruling guilty without the defendant even present and also not executing policy correctly by then using a forum sanction to completely permban from the server and discord. 1) it's not my fault that you can't view the evidence, bring that up in a pm to seth. 2) it's not really anybody else's business except for the admins and the person in question in the sanction request, so i don't really understand why it should be public. 3) i agree that zaid should have been given a chance to argue his case, but seeing how he reacted to being removed (which was temporarily, and he knew that) i'm pretty sure it would have just sparked another flame war. 4) q. Forum ban. Forum members that get banned under the forum rules are also subject to IP perm ban on the server and will not be allowed on the server until the forum ban is removed. Those who are perm banned on both the server and forum can file an appeal via email - see pastebin.com/xtXWKAJi
doesn't say anywhere that "certain ban requirements must be met". just that it's a forum ban period.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 0:34:31 GMT
Because he's banned from the forums for two weeks he is banned from the server and discord server. This would be rule 1q, a rule which god knows when has been last executed and also does not apply to the discord server under the conduct policy. In addition to this, there is no transparency behind the process that resulted in this or the ability for the individual to defend themselves aside from an email appeal which is kind of contradictory because it applies to a server permban which wasn't put in place as a result of a server permban. Yes, it hasn't been used in a while, but that doesn't mean it can't be. I will make a thread with all the evidence against him when I return home unless Robin does it before me. I am going to update rule 1q right now because I forgot to include the discord server as well.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:35:44 GMT
Not only are we not able to view the evidence or this sanction request at all, and it was also not communicated whatsoever that a sanction request existed, that does not guarantee a ban from the server. You can only be permbanned from the server as a result from a forum ban having certain conditions been met if I recall correctly. In addition to this, he was not able to defend himself at all because he did not have access to the sanction request (which is why I argued a while ago that sanctions should be public if permbans are also public), that's holding an entire court case and ruling guilty without the defendant even present and also not executing policy correctly by then using a forum sanction to completely permban from the server and discord. 1) it's not my fault that you can't view the evidence, bring that up in a pm to seth. 2) it's not really anybody else's business except for the admins and the person in question in the sanction request, so i don't really understand why it should be public. 3) i agree that zaid should have been given a chance to argue his case, but seeing how he reacted to being removed (which was temporarily, and he knew that) i'm pretty sure it would have just sparked another flame war. 4) q. Forum ban. Forum members that get banned under the forum rules are also subject to IP perm ban on the server and will not be allowed on the server until the forum ban is removed. Those who are perm banned on both the server and forum can file an appeal via email - see pastebin.com/xtXWKAJi
doesn't say anywhere that "certain ban requirements must be met". just that it's a forum ban period. 1. It certainly isn't, but I don't think anybody is arguing that you're at fault for anything? 2. And the person in question could not defend themselves. 3. Should a court refuse to have defendants and their lawyers in the courthouse and just only have the judge & jury because the defendant might throw a tantrum? 4. The user was also banned from the discord server, which is not mentioned under that rule. The rule does mention an email appeal for a permban, except this was not a server permban. That means that there is nothing that the individual can do to defend themselves if they believe the sanction/permban to be invalid.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 18, 2020 0:37:32 GMT
This would be rule 1q, a rule which god knows when has been last executed and also does not apply to the discord server under the conduct policy. In addition to this, there is no transparency behind the process that resulted in this or the ability for the individual to defend themselves aside from an email appeal which is kind of contradictory because it applies to a server permban which wasn't put in place as a result of a server permban. Yes, it hasn't been used in a while, but that doesn't mean it can't be. I will make a thread with all the evidence against him when I return home unless Robin does it before me. I am going to update rule 1q right now because I forgot to include the discord server as well. How is it fair to retroactively update a rule after the individual was already banned? Things don't work this way, you don't put somebody in prison then update the law to make it valid. If the rule wasn't used in the first place, then it makes little sense to me to enforce it in a specific case especially considering the fact that the individual has no ability to defend themselves.
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