neroblackcat
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Post by neroblackcat on Jan 12, 2020 19:36:48 GMT
Hello everyone, I am posting this since we (as a community) need to address what words are allowed on TF and what words aren't. The more that we lean towards advertising our server to obtain more players, the more we need to adjust for, most specifically, younger audiences. First of all, these slurs are prohibited from this server, and are stated in the conduct policy, Section 3: I know that even people with higher positions than me have used language as described here, let alone those in the same rank or lower than me. I believe it is misguidance for the rest of our server. I know many people use it and it’s hard to control after using it so much, but as the Assistant Advertisement Manager, I believe that this would bring in a larger audience (ex: children and diverse peoples). And I know at least a few others that are part of this great community agree. Yes, it is the internet. Yes, Minecraft is considered a video game. But, that doesn’t mean we can’t create a safer space for different groups of people that just want to enjoy a game, no matter what their age, race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or gender is. I spoke with my superior (@w1z ) and he agrees. I would recommend that a plugin be made that would deny the usage of these slurs on the actual server, as a start. As an admin that has been here for a really damn long time, I’ve seen the rise and decline in the amount of players we have had over the years. I remember when ops and admins would get excited about an increase in our server slots! What a good time! But now we have 75 slots… and maybe, at most, 20 players on at a time (at least when I have been online)-- although that’s about an average for our server at any given time. We have had trouble advertising in the past, but opening up the server to a wider audience will help create a larger community to enjoy this old server with. Thank you all for taking the time to read this (if you actually read it). I know that this would be a large change to the way our server currently is. But if we really want to see the numbers go up, we have to change. And change isn’t always a bad thing.
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StevenNL2000
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Post by StevenNL2000 on Jan 12, 2020 20:26:38 GMT
Does this reduce the freedom of players, in your opinion?
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neroblackcat
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rip sig.grumpybumpers
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Post by neroblackcat on Jan 12, 2020 20:33:03 GMT
Does this reduce the freedom of players, in your opinion? In my opinion, not by much. Freedom of speech is one thing, sure talk shit about me and say the f word. But using slurs doesn't exactly make anyone feel comfortable sticking around the server.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 20:50:25 GMT
Does this reduce the freedom of players, in your opinion? In my opinion, not by much. Freedom of speech is one thing, sure talk shit about me and say the f word. But using slurs doesn't exactly make anyone feel comfortable sticking around the server. Additionally, freedom can only exist in an environment that makes freedom possible. I don't see much "freedom", in a place where someone part of the LGBTQIA+, or a "non-wasp", has to constantly parse through derogatory slurs pertaining to the downfall of their very existence (be it as a joke, or not). I don't see much fun in that, nor would I stick around in a community where day-in and day-out, derogatory slurs, and hate speech, were not only accepted, but normalized. Call me a snowflake, but how can we ever hope to expand our communities reach, when we constantly shoot ourselves in the foot, by isolating a large part of our existing community, and potential MM community, moving forward?
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Post by SupItsDillon on Jan 12, 2020 21:31:49 GMT
In my opinion, not by much. Freedom of speech is one thing, sure talk shit about me and say the f word. But using slurs doesn't exactly make anyone feel comfortable sticking around the server. Additionally, freedom can only exist in an environment that makes freedom possible. I don't see much "freedom", in a place where someone part of the LGBTQIA+, or a "non-wasp", has to constantly parse through derogatory slurs pertaining to the downfall of their very existence (be it as a joke, or not). I don't see much fun in that, nor would I stick around in a community where day-in and day-out, derogatory slurs, and hate speech, were not only accepted, but normalized. Call me a snowflake, but how can we ever hope to expand our communities reach, when we constantly shoot ourselves in the foot, by isolating a large part of our existing community, and potential MM community, moving forward? snowflake you did ask
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tozzit
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Post by tozzit on Jan 12, 2020 22:12:25 GMT
ok my comment got deleted, fair enough
What slurs do you propose gets banned by a plugin?
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 13, 2020 0:20:17 GMT
My only question is, and it's a good thing that you've specifically mentioned the fact that this is something that even the highest ranked people here participate in, what is the line between humorous/innocent/reclaimed/slang usage of a word vs. a slur? A fair argument is that a lot of usage of "gay", "faggot", "nigga" is reclaimed/innocent usage by LGBTQ+ people or people of color themselves, but it's also an equally fair argument to state that offense can still be seen in others as a slur. Additionally, the line between the n word without the hard R and with it is still a valid question when considering the rules. I'm not seeing a way how everybody *can* be satisfied by a line between different slurs, and I suspect that's the reason why it's taken a decade to get to this point. Everybody, including the minorities affected themselves, have differing opinions amongst themselves on a line.
So in order to achieve something like this, we would not only have to somehow reach a consensus on which particular words are just too much to allow, what line will be drawn, and how we're going to change the already existent culture around these words which I would honestly argue might be larger now than it ever was with some particular words.
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neroblackcat
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rip sig.grumpybumpers
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Post by neroblackcat on Jan 13, 2020 0:39:48 GMT
ok my comment got deleted, fair enough What slurs do you propose gets banned by a plugin? My only question is, and it's a good thing that you've specifically mentioned the fact that this is something that even the highest ranked people here participate in, what is the line between humorous/innocent/reclaimed/slang usage of a word vs. a slur? A fair argument is that a lot of usage of "gay", "faggot", "nigga" is reclaimed/innocent usage by LGBTQ+ people or people of color themselves, but it's also an equally fair argument to state that offense can still be seen in others as a slur. Additionally, the line between the n word without the hard R and with it is still a valid question when considering the rules. I'm not seeing a way how everybody *can* be satisfied by a line between different slurs, and I suspect that's the reason why it's taken a decade to get to this point. Everybody, including the minorities affected themselves, have differing opinions amongst themselves on a line. So in order to achieve something like this, we would not only have to somehow reach a consensus on which particular words are just too much to allow, what line will be drawn, and how we're going to change the already existent culture around these words which I would honestly argue might be larger now than it ever was with some particular words. I think these are asking roughly the same question, so I hope it's okay that I respond to both of you here. If not, then please let me know. I think at least starting with removing the hard r from the usage of the n word on the server would do at the moment with how our server is currently operating. I know in the past it was actually enforced. I only say just the hard r for now due to the lack of traction this whole idea has with a good handful of people that are out of my control.
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Post by Polaris Seltzeris on Jan 13, 2020 0:41:53 GMT
ok my comment got deleted, fair enough What slurs do you propose gets banned by a plugin? My only question is, and it's a good thing that you've specifically mentioned the fact that this is something that even the highest ranked people here participate in, what is the line between humorous/innocent/reclaimed/slang usage of a word vs. a slur? A fair argument is that a lot of usage of "gay", "faggot", "nigga" is reclaimed/innocent usage by LGBTQ+ people or people of color themselves, but it's also an equally fair argument to state that offense can still be seen in others as a slur. Additionally, the line between the n word without the hard R and with it is still a valid question when considering the rules. I'm not seeing a way how everybody *can* be satisfied by a line between different slurs, and I suspect that's the reason why it's taken a decade to get to this point. Everybody, including the minorities affected themselves, have differing opinions amongst themselves on a line. So in order to achieve something like this, we would not only have to somehow reach a consensus on which particular words are just too much to allow, what line will be drawn, and how we're going to change the already existent culture around these words which I would honestly argue might be larger now than it ever was with some particular words. I think these are asking roughly the same question, so I hope it's okay that I respond to both of you here. If not, then please let me know. I think at least starting with removing the hard r from the usage of the n word on the server would do at the moment with how our server is currently operating. I know in the past it was actually enforced. I only say just the hard r for now due to the lack of traction this whole idea has with a good handful of people that are out of my control. Wouldn't that then set a precedence issue that we're banning just one singular word when there are other slurs that other groups may find equally offensive?
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neroblackcat
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rip sig.grumpybumpers
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Post by neroblackcat on Jan 13, 2020 0:52:58 GMT
I think these are asking roughly the same question, so I hope it's okay that I respond to both of you here. If not, then please let me know. I think at least starting with removing the hard r from the usage of the n word on the server would do at the moment with how our server is currently operating. I know in the past it was actually enforced. I only say just the hard r for now due to the lack of traction this whole idea has with a good handful of people that are out of my control. Wouldn't that then set a precedence issue that we're banning just one singular word when there are other slurs that other groups may find equally offensive? Trust me, I totally agree with that. After posting thread, I've come to realize that even with support I do have from fellow server members... It apparently doesn't matter. I would much prefer to get rid of slurs like "tranny" or "kike" all together for the sake of getting more players to join and feel comfortable staying. It hasn't even been a day and I've already had people (who I have no control over in any way) come at me because of this proposal.This is moreso up to Seth than me. I'm just pointing out how this is important moreso for the fact that I know how much this server has been trying to attract more players... Which hasn't been going great recently. I hope that answers that question.
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Post by Shalltear Bloodfallen on Jan 13, 2020 2:59:01 GMT
This is a good idea. We should block every word insulting every community and subculture so everyone can comfortably play the server. They will encompass both obviously bad words such as f*ggot, the n-word with and without the hard r, "ez*, eg*rl etc to be as inclusive as possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 3:09:39 GMT
I think this is a great idea - but again, there will need to be a clear line established between humorous and offensive comments.
In my opinion, I don't even know why we need to be saying these offensive slurs (as admins) in the first place. I do my fair amount of buffoonery but I do try to avoid (potentially) offensive language because I just don't think it's needed.
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1cloud_
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hi
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Post by 1cloud_ on Jan 13, 2020 3:35:18 GMT
Vouch I'd also like to point out that there's a lot of unpunished discrimination within the staff team
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zeseryu
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Admin Officer
ops rights activist
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Post by zeseryu on Jan 13, 2020 3:54:20 GMT
It is my God given right to say "Nigga."
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Post by Captainclimber on Jan 13, 2020 5:30:53 GMT
Bringing back a past suggestion, why don't we still add a chat filtering plugin, but make it toggleable to different levels. For example, /chatfilter high would block all forms of profanity/racist slurs and /chatfilter off would not blur out anything.
This would make the younger age groups happy and the older age groups with the same freedom they had before.
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