burger
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fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Aug 13, 2020 17:16:16 GMT
confirm email doesnt send registration is diabled Are we going to go through with this new forum even though seth is leaving?
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elmon
Veteran Member
Asst. Server Liaison
fionn sucks
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Post by elmon on Aug 13, 2020 17:36:04 GMT
Are we going to go through with this new forum even though seth is leaving? that's not confirmed
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 17:40:46 GMT
Are we going to go through with this new forum even though seth is leaving? that's not confirmed I'm taking a break, but I'm still going to work on the forum since no one is there, it'll be my little quiet place for now.
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
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Post by Wild1145 on Aug 13, 2020 19:29:20 GMT
I will be perfectly honest, I have serious concerns about this and personally won't be signing up if / when they go live. I don't believe the same level of security and assurance can be achieved nor do I think you would like it if I ended up making legal requests under GDPR to find out what data you hold and how you process it, all things Proboards currently gives us.
I also am concerned that we could loose key history to the server, and given you can't legally move the threads from here to there without getting every poster in history's sign off, I can't see how this is going to work.
If you do move I wish you all well, it's been a pleasure for the most part.
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Post by Telesphoreo on Aug 13, 2020 19:47:30 GMT
I will be perfectly honest, I have serious concerns about this and personally won't be signing up if / when they go live. I don't believe the same level of security and assurance can be achieved nor do I think you would like it if I ended up making legal requests under GDPR to find out what data you hold and how you process it, all things Proboards currently gives us. I also am concerned that we could loose key history to the server, and given you can't legally move the threads from here to there without getting every poster in history's sign off, I can't see how this is going to work. If you do move I wish you all well, it's been a pleasure for the most part. I mean, I'm sure that the passwords aren't stored in plaintext. Everything you post and upload is stored (presumably). The only other source of data is from Apache itself, which has the access.log... The main issue I have with the security is that the VPS is running an operating system that is EOL and is no longer updated, and what guarantee do we have with MyBB? The plugins on the server are barely kept up to date, who's gonna update MyBB? And is it easy to maintain / update? Are core files being modified so that it's a pain in the ass to update, or what? I don't see a problem with preserving stuff, to be perfectly honest. I assume that everything is stored with MySQL (it is with Flarum). It's stupidly easy to run mysqldump and scp it to a different server / local computer every 30 minutes or hour. I don't think we need to store backups forever. Hourly backups and ones that are a week old are deleted? Not sure these systems are in place (or will be), and I think that it'll take longer and longer as the forum size and history grows. I think that ProBoards does suck, but can MyBB off of Seth's server sustain the community for the next 8 years?
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
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Post by Wild1145 on Aug 13, 2020 20:27:47 GMT
I will be perfectly honest, I have serious concerns about this and personally won't be signing up if / when they go live. I don't believe the same level of security and assurance can be achieved nor do I think you would like it if I ended up making legal requests under GDPR to find out what data you hold and how you process it, all things Proboards currently gives us. I also am concerned that we could loose key history to the server, and given you can't legally move the threads from here to there without getting every poster in history's sign off, I can't see how this is going to work. If you do move I wish you all well, it's been a pleasure for the most part. I mean, I'm sure that the passwords aren't stored in plaintext. Everything you post and upload is stored (presumably). The only other source of data is from Apache itself, which has the access.log... The main issue I have with the security is that the VPS is running an operating system that is EOL and is no longer updated, and what guarantee do we have with MyBB? The plugins on the server are barely kept up to date, who's gonna update MyBB? And is it easy to maintain / update? Are core files being modified so that it's a pain in the ass to update, or what? I don't see a problem with preserving stuff, to be perfectly honest. I assume that everything is stored with MySQL (it is with Flarum). It's stupidly easy to run mysqldump and scp it to a different server / local computer every 30 minutes or hour. I don't think we need to store backups forever. Hourly backups and ones that are a week old are deleted? Not sure these systems are in place (or will be), and I think that it'll take longer and longer as the forum size and history grows. I think that ProBoards does suck, but can MyBB off of Seth's server sustain the community for the next 8 years? You might be sure of that, I can't be, nor can anyone else (Though that's no different to any service). My concerns over the lack of history was loosing the proboards forums, because you can't copy / paste any of the posts you didn't author as you don't own that content, the original poster does. While yes backups and such are practical on the new server, if Seth's running it we don't have the separation of responsibilities that we have here, and it's a concern I share for the Discord server whereby if Seth stepped down / went AWOL we'd never get that back, whereas right now Finest has a break glass of being the "admin" on Proboards and can't be removed. I obviously have concerns over if the people involved in the build are skilled to do that, and the fact that I don't think MyBB is exactly an ideal solution for modern forums (Though not a bad one). I'm also concerned that people may not appreciate the amount of legal work that goes into running a platform like that around writing privacy policies and all of that, and again my example of GDPR being something I suspect people have not yet considered.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 22:11:12 GMT
I mean, I'm sure that the passwords aren't stored in plaintext. Everything you post and upload is stored (presumably). The only other source of data is from Apache itself, which has the access.log... The main issue I have with the security is that the VPS is running an operating system that is EOL and is no longer updated, and what guarantee do we have with MyBB? The plugins on the server are barely kept up to date, who's gonna update MyBB? And is it easy to maintain / update? Are core files being modified so that it's a pain in the ass to update, or what? I don't see a problem with preserving stuff, to be perfectly honest. I assume that everything is stored with MySQL (it is with Flarum). It's stupidly easy to run mysqldump and scp it to a different server / local computer every 30 minutes or hour. I don't think we need to store backups forever. Hourly backups and ones that are a week old are deleted? Not sure these systems are in place (or will be), and I think that it'll take longer and longer as the forum size and history grows. I think that ProBoards does suck, but can MyBB off of Seth's server sustain the community for the next 8 years? You might be sure of that, I can't be, nor can anyone else (Though that's no different to any service). My concerns over the lack of history was loosing the proboards forums, because you can't copy / paste any of the posts you didn't author as you don't own that content, the original poster does. While yes backups and such are practical on the new server, if Seth's running it we don't have the separation of responsibilities that we have here, and it's a concern I share for the Discord server whereby if Seth stepped down / went AWOL we'd never get that back, whereas right now Finest has a break glass of being the "admin" on Proboards and can't be removed. I obviously have concerns over if the people involved in the build are skilled to do that, and the fact that I don't think MyBB is exactly an ideal solution for modern forums (Though not a bad one). I'm also concerned that people may not appreciate the amount of legal work that goes into running a platform like that around writing privacy policies and all of that, and again my example of GDPR being something I suspect people have not yet considered. If an EU resident would like to have their data removed from the forum, there is an option in the admin control panel where I can delete all data associated with the account. This forum will always be here, but in an archived state (no one can post anything)
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Wild1145
Club 4000 Member
Inactive Player & Inactive Senior Admin
Posts: 10,414
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Post by Wild1145 on Aug 13, 2020 22:26:23 GMT
You might be sure of that, I can't be, nor can anyone else (Though that's no different to any service). My concerns over the lack of history was loosing the proboards forums, because you can't copy / paste any of the posts you didn't author as you don't own that content, the original poster does. While yes backups and such are practical on the new server, if Seth's running it we don't have the separation of responsibilities that we have here, and it's a concern I share for the Discord server whereby if Seth stepped down / went AWOL we'd never get that back, whereas right now Finest has a break glass of being the "admin" on Proboards and can't be removed. I obviously have concerns over if the people involved in the build are skilled to do that, and the fact that I don't think MyBB is exactly an ideal solution for modern forums (Though not a bad one). I'm also concerned that people may not appreciate the amount of legal work that goes into running a platform like that around writing privacy policies and all of that, and again my example of GDPR being something I suspect people have not yet considered. If an EU resident would like to have their data removed from the forum, there is an option in the admin control panel where I can delete all data associated with the account. This forum will always be here, but in an archived state (no one can post anything) There are wider legal impacts of GDPR, and that was part of my point. I can legally require you to tell me every piece of data that is stored on me, exactly how and where you process such data and for what legal purpose, I can request the personal information of the persons or company doing so and all sorts of other things. Currently all of that is managed by Proboards, and I'm not convinced that's been thought through. Either way I think this is a bad idea, MyBB isn't a great solution for one thing, I'm not personally convinced the quality standard will be to the same as what we've got, and I'm not comfortable giving that information to somewhere that has no legal entity or similar to back it up, or where I don't know where that data is being used, not to mention I'd be surprised if there are many (Frankly if any) people here who could build and maintain the infrastructure required to run this in a vaguely sensible way...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 0:35:54 GMT
If an EU resident would like to have their data removed from the forum, there is an option in the admin control panel where I can delete all data associated with the account. This forum will always be here, but in an archived state (no one can post anything) There are wider legal impacts of GDPR, and that was part of my point. I can legally require you to tell me every piece of data that is stored on me, exactly how and where you process such data and for what legal purpose, I can request the personal information of the persons or company doing so and all sorts of other things. Currently all of that is managed by Proboards, and I'm not convinced that's been thought through. Either way I think this is a bad idea, MyBB isn't a great solution for one thing, I'm not personally convinced the quality standard will be to the same as what we've got, and I'm not comfortable giving that information to somewhere that has no legal entity or similar to back it up, or where I don't know where that data is being used, not to mention I'd be surprised if there are many (Frankly if any) people here who could build and maintain the infrastructure required to run this in a vaguely sensible way... I just got this plugin that lets people download their data and completely erase it themselves. Now I just have to research what goes into a privacy policy
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 3:38:47 GMT
Can I get a TL;DR even though I read all of it idk what I just read
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burger
Registered
fionn is overated
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Post by burger on Aug 15, 2020 3:40:01 GMT
Can I get a TL;DR even though I read all of it idk what I just read new forums
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Hockey
Club 4000 Member
Posts: 4,537
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Post by Hockey on Aug 16, 2020 15:59:37 GMT
Our saving grace last time an owner went MIA was Finest on the forums. If Seth dips, we don't really have a fallback. There's no checks and balances here, and I feel like this is a move to consolidate power. It's not that I don't trust Seth to do a good job, he generally has, but there's just nowhere to go if someone up top dips.
I also think Wild raises some really good points about privacy and security. Someone is going to have to be on top of it at all times because there is so much user data at stake.
Also, out of curiosity, what are these plans for expansion? I agree that moving to a separate forums might be a genuine need if we are going to expand, but what are these plans?
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Gommeh
Veteran Member
dammit ryan and rylie
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Post by Gommeh on Aug 16, 2020 19:29:10 GMT
and when will the switch happen? Approx. 2-3 days from what I heard
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JagWire
Veteran Member
Woof
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Post by JagWire on Aug 16, 2020 20:01:24 GMT
I also love that this wasn't even announced by Seth but just pretty much announced in a somewhat "Meme" thread.
Also, will I be retaining my forum moderator status on the new forum?
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Darth
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Server Liaison
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Post by Darth on Aug 16, 2020 20:34:00 GMT
I also love that this wasn't even announced by Seth but just pretty much announced in a somewhat "Meme" thread. Also, will I be retaining my forum moderator status on the new forum? Yes
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